GLDCommish

Wow..I just spent about half an hour reading all the previous response to the original thread!

I can write on this topic with some authority. I spent 3 years as our district's advancement chair and I can tell you that I have seen both sides of this story. My guess is that the reason they developed their "Our counselors only" policy is because they had a bad experience at camp some where along the line.

I can tell you that trying to ensure that the counselors at summer camp are following the proper BSA merit badge policies can be a daunting task even for the Council Advancement Committee! Every year we conduct merit badge counselor training for the entire camp staff (even those under 18 not eligible to be MBCs). Most of our camp counselors are ~ 18 - 21. About 10% of what we teach sinks in at the training and registration class (yes we ensure that all the counselors at camp are properly registered as such with BSA). Once they leave the training there is no way to determine if any of them are following the rules until it's too late.

Last year (September 2006) my wife counseled a scout working towards Eagle. He worked on Family Life and Personal Finance at Eagle week at summer camp. This young ~14 year old scout came to her to finish the badges. These are both 90 day badges. First off they were never in the original MB offering at camp. But that's a whole different thread. When this scout started working with my wife, she asked to see what he had done at camp. The scout was unable to produce the written work that he should have had from camp. So my wife would not sign off that requirement until he produced it. After two meetings he still could not produce written work and told my wife that he did it at camp orally with the counselor. After the second meeting the boy's mother called my wife very upset that my wife would doubt her son's word. My wife explained that as the MB counselor she had the responsibility to ensure that all the requirements are met. Mother didn't like this reponse and implied that she had no right to do that and that since she paid for her son to attend Eagle week she EXPECTED that he would earn the badge.

But back to the orginal thread.........What the troop is doing is against advancement policy and for the scout and parents not to know that in advance is unfair to the boy. I would suggest asking the Scoutmaster, Committee Chair and the UC for a meeting to discuss how, when and especially why the troop set that policy and hope for a reasonable answer. My guess is that they will say that they have no confidence in the camp counselors that they are doing what they are supposed to do. My suggetion is to err on the side of the scout. It isn't his fault that he wasn't aware of the policy and it isn't his fault that the counselor MY NOT have known what they were doing......the scout should get his MB.

Hello Cubmaster Randy

I assume that there is no loss or gain in the other ranks (Bobcat, Wolf, Bear, Web I).

If your net this year is up 5 boys than your retention rate is over 100%. I don't know exactly how many boys you have so I can't tell you exactly what percentage. Take this year's number and divide by last year's number and multiy by 100. That's the retention rate. National averge is about 67 percent (I.E. one out of every three boys drop out of the program every year)!

If you can end up each year with a gain in boys you must be doing something right!

Time for me to put it my two cents. As a DC it's my job to make sure that my UCs get out there and get commitments. We did that with commitments from nearly 100 percent of our units (some are so stubborn). So up until now all is well and I never gave much thought to how we would determine who's eligible and who isn't. So the other night I sat down and re-read EVERYTHING I could find from last year on the New Centennial Quality award including the web site and listening to Don Belcher's podcast MULTIPLE times (I burned a CD so I could listen to it in my car).

I totally agee with the concept of the program. Encourage (force) units and leaders to carefully scrutinize their program to ensure that they are offering the best they can for our youth. That being said, the format (and form) that National has given us to work with is pathetic! I hope someone from National occassionaly reads these forums. Because when I try to discuss it with my DE or Council Commissioner they accuss me of being to nit-picky.

The way I read the point about youth retention percentage and recruiting new boys indicates to me that the unit can have an over all membership LOSS and still qualify for the award. Because they don't tie in one with the other. Example: Lets say you have a unit with 40 boys last year 2006 and it is clearly shown from last year's roster. The unit sets an objective to retain 75 percentage. That's a great number by National standards given that the National average is about 67%. That's a lose of 10 boys. The same bullet asks the unit how many NEW boys they plan to recruit and that number is set. So the unit decides to recruit 8 new boys. So now this year the unit only has 48 boys (loss of two) but since the number recruited is not tied into the percentage retained the unit has a net loss but still qualifies if they reach their objectives. Is that National's definition of "Progress"?

The leader recruiting is similar. They only ask about "NEW" leaders and no mention of leader retention. Same deal, if 4 adults leave a unit and you commit to recruit 3 NEW adults and the unit succeeds in recruiting, then the goal is met. But bottom line, the unit is still down one leader! I don't see that as "Progress". But at the same time if I follow the criteria to the letter I can't deny a unit the award based on that point. The only way they could be denied is if they commit to a number, say 3 new adults and don't recruit any.

This award is consuming too much time trying to just figure it out and it is taking away from concentrating on improving the program.

Gold Winger, thanks for the reply but it doesn't answer my original question: Can someone point out to me some official BSA documentation that describes where to wear the NYLT patch or what you can do with it.

As I mentioned in my first posting, I am seeing nearly everyone that attends NYLT wearing the patch where the Jamboree patch goes. I don't think this is correct but I can't prove that it isn't. Someone at NYLT training must be telling them where to wear it.

Is there an answer to this question........

Don't be so cheap, buy the SM handbook and read it!

I am the uniform police......just kidding.

I have the 2006 printing of the Insignia Guide. The NYLT patch is mentioned on page 31 in name only. No mention of where it is worn.

The Jamboree patch is mentioned on pages 4, 18, 42 and 50. Nowhere does it say that this is the ONLY patch that can be worn in that location.

Can someone direct me to the proper official scouting literature that explains in plain english where to wear the new NYLT patch?

I see most boys who have taken the course wearing it above the right pocket where the National Jamboree patch is worn. I believe that the National Jamboree patch is the only patch that is worn in that location.