1HR_A_WEEK

As Eagle92 mentions, DE is basically useless in these kind of situations unless there is a YP issue/criminal problem (no offense). Talking to a district commissioner and requesting mediation help is a possibility. Letting them know whats going on is a good thing and can avoid problems.

Having had to remove a den leader, our process went like this...

Steps:

1) Petition committee to hear reccomendation to remove den leader.

2) Notify committee ahead of time.

3) Notify den leader of intended action.

4) Request den leader attend committee meeting to address the committee or provide a written statement to be read by a person of their choosing.

2) At meeting, both parties given an opportunity to address committee either in person or via written proxy. Parties are not interrupted.

3) Committee asks parties to wait outside while they discuss.

4) Committee votes via ballot.

5) If COR is part of committee (some are, some are more distant), he/she either takes the recommendation back to the CO with their own recommendation, or if they have authority to make the decision on the spot, either accepts the recommendation or rejects it.

6) Both parties invited back inside, informed of committee decision. Vote results not disclosed, only decision.

7) If COR is not present, committee decision relayed to COR/CO for decision to accept/reject.

8) Leader is removed if CO accepts recommendation of committee.

Optional wise things to do:

1) Invite a district commissioner to attend the meeting as an observer.

2) Make sure all committee members know about this issue and will be in attendance.

3) Ask the COR to attend if they don't normally attend the meetings, let them know what is going on ahead of time.

Transparency in this process is key. Sounds like the CM is trying to pull a fast one. Bad idea.

I'll have to give it a shot.

So what exactly is meant by tucking the collar under? Are you saying that one should roll the entire collar under the shirt to make it collarless? Seems like it would be very uncomfortable having the collar like that.

Thanks for the suggestions guys!

Congrats fellow Bobwhite! Bobwhites - Tastes great, less filling!

I'd like to find a decent online source for a campaign hat that is reasonably priced ($30-40). Does anyone have any recommendations? Campaign hat is the Smokey the bear/trooper hat for those wondering. I appreciate any help you can give.

Hey CubMon. When I went to WB I saw every shape and size of tent you can imagine. It's really up to you what you take. If all you have is a bigger tent, take it. Just make a few trips from the car.

WB isn't a high adventure experience, you don't need to fit everything into a backpack or rough it IMHO. I have severe sleep apnea and needed access to electricity of some kind to run my CPAP machine. It wasn't a problem. I have a bad back so I had a cot and pad in my tent. I was prepared for my needs and knew it would take a few trips to get setup.

The second weekend you are with your patrol and setup in a group. You have your own kitchen, food, etc. As a patrol you will decide who is bringing what and will plan accordingly, and as a patrol support and help each other to setup your area.

I went through it as a Cub Scout leader too and was fortunate to have boy scout leaders and other cub scout leaders in my patrol. Boy Scouts have different ways of doing things so it was a great experience for me to get to do things with them.

I like training because it teaches the BSA way of doing things. I've seen leaders that haven't done their training and on occasion have seen discrepancies. I don't want to see a scout learn Jim Bob's way of doing X,Y,Z, I want to see them learning the BSA way.

Conversely, if I'm volunteering to fill a role, I want the training, being left to twist out in the wind isn't my idea of fun. Just my two cents.

Yesterday I had my beading ceremony for course C-26-09. It was a big day for me for a number of reasons, not the least of which was that my son got to be part of the ceremony and see his Dad's efforts finally pay off. I finished a few months ago and just got around to doing the beading ceremony yesterday.

Wood badge is in a lot of ways like advanced technical training. Since CISCO is a widely public brand, let's take a minute to consider the CCNA (Cisco Certified Network Associate Routing & Switching). This is a certification that employers love to see on a resume. A person with little or no technical skills can take this course, study for the test and in theory, obtain the certification with zero practical application outside of the lab environment.

I imagine that there are people who do the same thing with Wood Badge. The take it because they think it will make them look good, and for all practical purposes it may very well do that in the eyes of their peers who have take the course and gone through the ticket process.

But, like the CCNA, having a certification on paper that you never put into use on a daily basis, quickly becomes static, stale and worthless. Should that person find themself suddenly thrust into a complex emergency situation, their paper certification will be useful for on thing best kept to the caibo.

Wood badge is that way for leadership skills. If you don't take the effort to put the lessons learned into use on a frequent and ongoing basis, the benefit of this course may seem quite superficial. Take someone who can apply those lessons and does so in an effort to provide a better experience for the scouts he/she serves, and the results can be readily seen.

Don't get me wrong, a person doesn't come through WB and become Baden Powell. I often handle things in a way that could be done better, but because I try to keep the lessons from WB alive in my head I do on occasion get it right, or at least reflect on ways I could do better next time.

Lastly, I don't see why I shouldn't take pride in having completed the course and my tickets. It was a committment of time and energy that I could have easily quit doing at any time. Does it bother people because it doesn't fit into societies instant gratification expectation that society seems to have? Maybe.

Either way, just my two cents.

-Steve

Bobwhite Ninja's of Doom

C-26-09

Patrol, Beads, Woggle, Neckerchief are just "things". They have a purpose, a history, a shared camaraderie, and are perfectly acceptable things to be proud of receiving for a person's effort.

And while a few people cant see the forest for the trees, most do. Most recognize that they items are one facet of team building used in the course.

The uniform makes for brotherhood, since when universally adopted it covers up all differences of class and country. -- Sir Robert Baden Powell

Through the wood badge journey participants experience every level of scouting, as the wood badger advances through the course they move from being a cub scout and getting more directed leadership to a boy scout, venturer etc. these changes coincide with the burgeoning patrol dynamic and the patrols work more and more on their own in-between courses.

BP also said:

An individual step in character training is to put responsibility on the individual.

And this is what happens in the wood badge progression. Patrols work together to accomplish goals, cook, camp, etc. Bearing in mind that Wood Badge is the pinnacle of training, most people come to the course with a mastery of the basics that so many people bemoan not having in the new wood badge course.

Just my thoughts.

>How can someone employ EDGE to teach scoutcraft when no scoutcraft is taught to the EDGE trained leader?

Didn't realize that scoutcraft was passed down by oral tradition only. You are splitting hairs. Lots of other adult scout training available to get all the scoutcraft a person could need.

Plus let's not forget all of the other resources that are available - books, guides, personal scouting experience growing up, etc. etc. You can be the most experienced adult scouter in the world and be a terrible teacher and leader.

Give a person the tools to teach and lead effectively and they can accomplish anything in scouting. We are adults, what they do in the wild isn't rocket science.

An interesting topic for sure. I personally find no problem with kilts. If a kilt was good enough for Lord B.P. I feel its good enough for myself or any scout. I ran across this intel on another site..

"As I posted before, all Scouts and Scouters may wear McLaren tartan,

pursuant to permission granted by their former clan chief which has never

been rescinded. When William F. Dubois McLaren, then a commissioner in

the Scouting movement, heard that clanless Scouts in Scotland were being

harassed and told that they could not wear a tartan, he is reported to

have replied:

"Rubbish!! Scouting is a brotherhood. Since they are my brothers, they

are members of my clan and may wear the McLaren tartan!"

Or words to that effect. Since he was then Clan Chief of the McLaren's,

he was well within his historical rights and prerogatives to allow

persons not related by blood to his clan to affiliate with them and to

wear the McLaren tartan and clan insignia. This often happened centuries

ago in the Scottish highlands. The families not related to the clansmen

by blood but oathbound to them were part of an allied "sept" of the clan."

---

Based on this, to me the wood back neckerchief is what is restricted to those who complete wood badge and not the use of the MacLaren tartan in a kilt.

I imagine part of the BSA lack of mention of a kilt is the fact that BSA doesn't SELL kilts. Wouldn't want to impose on sales. Unless I am mistaken, any authorized scout uniform from any point in time or country can be worn.

If a scout wants to go out and buy a vintage beret that was issued in the 70's, they can. Where honestly would scouting be today without B.P. and the MacLaren Gillwell donation?

To me a kilt in the MacLaren tartan is an homage to scouting, but that's just my opinion.