EO2(SCW)Ploense

BLUF = Bottom Line Up Front,

I am really getting things off my chest that I should have in the past. I am not amassing evidence. The implosion at my son's old troop is a self inflicted wound that is punishment enough. In a short period they went from 30 in regular attendance, to six sometimers. The boys expressed their displeasure with their feet. I hope the good people who still have any affiliation with the troop resurect it. They are good boys and deserve better.

I think I said it before. I was hoping to hear what I am hearing. Scouting has not lost its way. Good men like yourselves still call wrong, wrong and do what is right.

I have been education and administration over a dozen years. I have dealt with all types of kids. I have never found it acceptable to use vulgar language in front of boys (under 18). As one time drill instructor I must admit to frequently using foul language. Different time and place.

It is because of the comments here I plan on staying with scouting. Right now I work with the Cubs. They are a lot more fun and a world of less politics.

The reality of my situation was that the CC, COR, SM and several ASMs formed a little clique. They did a lot of covering for each other. The first time I heard swearing it was no little accident. One of our life scouts was upset about seing the patrol structure change. He became emotional. Before he could get started the CC started shouting and used a few choice words to get the point across that he wasn't going to take that from any kid. The COR was sitting right there. The boy's mom was on the phone with the COR later that evening. The boy's father couldn't do anything because he had passed away from cancer months before. The boy who should have made Eagle quit. He was the first of many over the years. Everything at that troop was kept at the lowest level.

It is a shame that a few adults for whatever reasons cannot put personal agendas aside and reap the reward of mentoring boys to become men. Passing on the art of leadership.

As for me...I'd like to stay with the program despite the bumps and hiccups. Although I don't want anything to do with petty politics. I would like to some day pass on my military skills such as First Aid, Camping, Hiking, Orienteering, Rifle shooting skills.

Any suggestions on how to accomplish that? Do I need to find a Scout troop?

regards,

Carl

for an adult leader to use profanity at a scout? If one adult leader appears to be loosing his composure with a scout and uses vulgar language what should another adult leader do? What is BSA policy?

regards,

Carl

Bob White,

I understand what you are saying is the official policy. I wish my son had known then what you state now. He would have planned accordingly.

To all who have comments about this thread. I think the thing that really gets me "wrapped around the axle" is that BSA adult leaders promised my son and I the aforementioned support and assitance. With a few exceptions that support failed to appear. After all the SM and committee did read the plan and it was not the first time in troop history an eagle project was done with troop equipment in the plan. And yes, in the presence of no returned phone calls, my son did line up a "B" plan. It worked. Perhaps if the man who became SM did so when the troop was not in disarray because the last three SM's quit. His volunteering/voting into office came to pass when I was in country and had little chance to voice a counter opinion. It was kind of like a scene in "Full Metal Jacket" where Cowboy becomes squad leader because all the better men were killed.

As far as leadership goes...it may be policy that allows an SM to stay at home when an Eagle project is underway; however, as a leader I want to know what my squad is doing. The two facets of any mission are its accomplishment and the welfare of those working. I cannot see accomplishing the leaders role by a "non-presence". It seems counter-intuitive. Or perhaps put another way, A good leader doesn't have to be there, he should want to be there.

The bottom line... I was wondering if I was wrong for thinking my son was jerked around unnecessisarily. Is this just a symptom of the clanish community in which the troop is based? Or are the circumstances I described something indicitave of a larger trend?

I say again, there was much more than went on. This little ordeal was the tip of the iceberg.

Thanks again for your time and input.

Regards,

Carl

PS How many of you would let your wife and son be shouted down by an adult leader and do nothing?

Thank you all for your input. I wish I could say that the SM in question had better intentions. I could elaborate on the times he yelled at my son, wife, son's friend, and grandparents in front of other parents and scouts. That might belabor the point.

As far as being over the top with this individual...it is hard to say. I am rather emotionally invested in the hurt the man did to my family. He had his excuses; however, I thought Scouting was supposed to teach the men and boys a code of conduct that rises above pettiness. Words like HONOR, COURAGE, COMMITMENT are a way of life for me, I have little understanding for those who don't embrace them.

Perhaps it is the sense that all the negative things that happened on my son's path to Eagle were unnecessary.

Perhaps it was the broken promises of adults I trusted to look after my son while I was in Iraq that anger me most.

Perhaps it was the fact that some adults waited until I was deployed to start taking jabs at my son.

Perhaps it was the pettiness of a few, and their refusal to live up to "trustworthy" and then try to block my son from Eagle that hurts.

Perhaps it was the DE who seemed to take little interest in the matter that led me to this forum.

Perhaps I expected better from Scouting.

My son gave his mentor pin to the Senior Petty Officer present to pass on to my battalion CO. He said his mentors were the three Seabees from my battalion, who lost their lives while serving in the Al Anbar province. That the sacrifices he made to earn Eagle will never equal what they did. That kind of selflessness is not seen enough any more.

I was hoping I was not alone in my thinking that one man's actions and local petty politics were the exception not the rule in scouting.

After looking at some of the responses I have hope again in the system.

evmori,

Thank you for your input. As I suspected good SM's actually show up at an Eagle project.

Yeah, I remember something about loyalty, courteousness, trustworthiness somewhere in scouting. But that stuff is for the kids only, right? The adults have a secret rule book that says "Do as I say, not as I do!"

So it is just not me who thinks that leadership "style" is as messed up as a football bat.

regards,

Carl

Thanks for the comments. Is it just me or did our old SM behave badly?

How would some of you handle similar circumstances?

regards,

Carl

Yes he did, but after much worse circumstances passed from the hands of so called leaders.

Greetings to all this fine Sunday morning. As many get ready for church before the Super Bowl. I was looking for some commentary on one of many incidents that a former so called SM created that at the very least was contrary to the Spirit of Scouting if not in violation of its laws. This is near and dear to me because it naturally involved my son.

Steven was organizing his Eagle project. He was building a Learning Garden at the elementary school where he attended. I should preface this by saying the fromer SM and the Eagle Coordinator are friends. My son was supposed to show his first copy to the committee on a Sunday at 3:00PM. He planned on typing the draft Sunday after church. However, the committee decided to change the time of its meeting to that saturday night during an overnight event. Now Steven is in a catch 22. The adult leaders demanded a level of participation for scouts to advance. They also wanted to see the plan before Steven went to the Eagle guy. Miss the event and loose points for scout spirit, give the committee a less than satisifactory report and deal with that. Steven informed the CC whose opinion was to give the project as is and improve it later. The committee put him through the wringer. It did not seem to be a character builder as much as a lets bash the kid fest. I sat by and let the adults have at it. At the very least I wanted my son to stand on his own.

Steven later took the first draft to the Eagle coordinator. He gave Steve the improvements he wanted to see and sent him on his way. The following meeting the SM told me that my son's plan was an embarassment to the troop. That his friend told him it was the worst he had seen. The SM gave me this long speech on how some boys are not cut out to be an Eagle. I listened, but said nothing. If I started it would have ended in a fist fight. The SM's son was held back from advancing on numerous occasions because of maturity issues and when the SM's son went for Eagle it almost tore the troop apart because of the move not to let him advance. His son did make Eagle. It will probably the achievment of his life. Good for him.

Steven perservered. He improved the written project. He secured materials and funds. He tried to coordinate labor; however, the SM who had the access to where the troops tools and van was would not return Steven's calls. On the day of the project two of the adults arrived and a couple of the kids. The SM was nowhere to be found. Steven was quick in his thinking and called his grandfather who had a treasure trove of tools and the necessary wheelbarrow for the project. By day's end the garden was in and complete. The following meeting the SM gave some song and dance about not being able to get the van insured in time. He could not account for not returning the calls. He did not say why he couldn't attend to help the project. The SM's son later let it slip that he and dad spent the day raking leaves.

Perhaps this was a bit of a long story;however, this is the tip of the iceberg.

A good SM puts aside personal opinion and helps the scout.

A good SM constructively critisizes rather than bad-mouths.

A good SM molds leadership along the way and does not late in the day decry its absence.

A good SM leads by example.

I could go on but eagerly await your commentary.

Regards,

EO2(SCW)Carl M. Ploense III

Thank you gentlemen. I have many scouting "sea stories" to discuss. I look forward to the conversations.

regards,

Carl

Greetings to all. I wish I had know about the site a few years ago. I have a rucksack full of stories, that resemble the western "The Good, The Bad and the Ugly". Those anicdotes are for another time.

I began my scouting experience in Cub Scouts before Tigers were invented. I made my way up and earned the Arrow of Light. I Crossed over and pursued the BSA up to Second Class (Funny, my rank in the Naval Reserve). The troop broke up due to some adult leader problems. My SM Mr. Anderson left a huge impression on me. He was a Korean War Veteran of the Air Force. Our troop 275 in its hey-day looked as sharp as the Marines on the drill field. Mr. Anderson had a way of demanding from each boy the best in himself while never letting them forget he cared for them. With his departure the will to remain in scouts died.

However, in my junior year in high school I took up another challenge I joined the Marine Corps. While on active duty I rose to the rank of Lance Corpral. I was a Fire Team leader. My job was field wireman, and I held a second billet as radio operator. I was a field communicator which is to say a battery powered grunt. I thanked what I had learned from Mr. Anderson. Unlike those outside of scouting I already knew how to hike, backpack, and do some of the essential wilderness survival skills.

I got married while I was in, got out and started college. I earned my teaching degree (history). Then it happened. My son was born. I knew I had to start planning Tiger cub activities and drills. After all I knew I only had a few years to get my son up to speed.

Actually my thought was for Steven to try it out and see what he thought. His friends were in it, so he liked it. That was when I got hooked. The CM asked if I could be a den leader. He told me if I couldn't do it he'd understand...but would have to disband the den because there wasn't enough leadership to go round. I wasn't about to let that happen. It only took a year later when I ended up the CM. As CM I did pretty good. We took the troop from 6 to 20. I am a firm believer in putting the "outing in scouting". We went to hikes, family camps, and any outdoor activity we could. My son earned the Arrow of Light. I followed Steven up. We went to a small troop with a bad SM and left shortly thereafter. We went to a great troop with 30 kids that was very active. The SM was low key and really tried to push the boy led troop idea. Steven was going along fine and then 9/11 happened. I was too old to play with the Marines; however, the Navy Reserves had a program through the Seabees I was able to get in to. There is no way I was going to sit on the sidelines and let someone else defend the country. I did my best to get along with the troop leaders who appeared sort of clanish at first. But for the most part were good people. The beloved SM stepped down after his youngest son made Eagle. What happened next is a tragedy to scouting. The pettiness, in-fighting, and total disregard for the ideals of scouting tore the troop apart. From 30 to 6 scouts in a couple of years. Every adult agenda seemed to matter more than the kids did. With Dale Snow as SM the boys learned, were treated with individual diginity, they became as tight as any good Marine or Seabee unit I served in, scouts was fun, the program worked. It was almost as if each adult saw the troop as his petty empire and did not care how he kept power in his area. To those adults, the kids outside their circle, just didn't matter. Early in 2005 my battalion got the warning order: we were going to Iraq. My son was 3/4 on his way to Eagle. I asked the adults to look out after Steven when I was gone, and in the event I didn't come back, get him to Eagle. They agreed. It will be the subject of another thread as to what happened next, however, after some struggles Steven earned his Eagle. At his Eagle Court, Steven had a full Navy Seabee color guard. All in Dress Blue A, with full ribbons. It was awsome. I could not have been prouder. Currently I am doing a low speed job as a committee member of the pack where I was once the CM.

I look forward to future conversations.

Regards,

Equipment Operator Second Class (Seabee Combat Warfare Specialist) Carl M. Ploense III