Eliza

>>Yes, boys are amazing. Our pack of about 120 scouts is pretty competitive with pinewood. Its a big family event for us also. One year a Tiger won the whole thing with a car he built himself. His dad might have helped a little, but he is mildly retarded and was very limited in his skills. It was pretty amazing and fun.

Barry

Wow, I am SO glad to hear about the boy who won the PWD -- put a smile on my face too (and a tear in my eye).

That is an interesting question. looking at the Webelos/AOL requirements, I see several places where scouts are specifically prohibited from using one activity to fulfill two different requirements (AOL camping/hike, Boy Scout outdoor activity, math loop for either Engineer or Scholar, but not for both). So, based on that, my reading would be that using an activity for two requirements would be allowed, unless specifically prohibited. Makes me wonder if requiring three letters would be adding to the requirements.

In the case you mentioned, if a scout did one fantastic letter, full of news and anecdotes, excellent grammar and spelling, well formatted, perhaps with a photo or scanned image included -- well, that might fulfill the spirit of the requirements better than three, just barely qualifying letters/documents. I'd also want to take into consideration how hard the requirement was for the scout -- for example, no home computer, physical or other disability, parents without enough schooling to offer any guidance. I guess that I am saying that there is not (IMO) a one size fits all answer to your question.

If you google 'Webelos double takes,' you can find pdfs that cross reference Webelos in requirements -- not quite what you were asking, but similar.

But, looking at your question from the other point of view -- consider some of the 'Character Connections,' especially Perseverance. In Athlete -- knowing perseverance means selecting one of the harder requirements. As parent, I made sure that my son realized that improving his time in a quarter mile swim was more meaningful than jumping up and making a mark on a wall. You can also apply the perseverance character connection to questions about belt loop/Web pin overlaps, i.e. Do Your Best. Now, if I were a parent in an urban area with unsafe streets, etc, the jumping up requirement might be a godsend. That would be my scout's best.

I like the ideas that have been posted. My son's favorite Pinewood Derby was a not too competitive one. Scouts had time to tune up their cars -- adults were on hand to add/take away (mostly add) weight, straighten alignment if wheels were really crooked, etc. Kids whose cars were ready could run them down the low tech wood track before entering them. The kids loved this! After the race was over, the kids had another chance to run their cars on the track -- kids loved having as many chances as possible to see their cars shoot down the track (without timing anything). Since each kid got to run his car multiple times, the focus moved away from the formal competition and was more on fun.

Siblings (mostly girls) were also allowed to race -- own races, not competing with Cub Scouts in the main race. It helped make the Derby feel like a fun family event.

Someone took a picture of each scout and his car and printed them on the spot with a mini photo printer. Again, focus on the scout and his car, not so much on win/lose.

I love the idea of a dads/parents race. And, for the little (Tigers, Wolves?) kids, I might think of certificates filled in on the spot -- best shark, best car that looks like food, etc. Even just holding up the cars and announcing (here's a hot dog made by ____, here's a Hershey bar, etc.) can be nice for the kids. If you have first, second and third place speed prizes for each den, don't just have one pack prize for best design. Find some way to recognize (not necessarily reward) the original cars that have been done by the boys themselves, even if the paint jobs are a bit drippy and the cars come in last!

Also, personally, I have found that repeated viewing of Down and Derby can makes an older kid want to make the car without asking for help.

SeattlePioneer

I almost forgot to thank you for your original post -- I told the teacher who runs the model rocket club at my son's school about the prices and he was thrilled to get the info.

Thinking about your question about experience -- would any of the elementary schools near you have model rocket clubs? Someone who runs one would have experience with the Cub-level age group and also might be a help with any local regulations, good places to launch, etc.

Also, another slightly related thought -- there is a wonderful, based-on-a-true-story movie called October Sky, about a high school boy, in the late 1950's who built model rockets (and went on to become a NASA engineer).

rdclements

Thank you for explaining the engine differences. I had noticed that the Wizard, for example, took various engines. Now I see why. We are in the suburbs, without big, empty fields, so I am thinking that the smaller engines will do for us.

Very basic questions here:

I see the rockets take various engines -- how do you choose which engine to get?

And, any launch pad recommendations?

I used to use the ziploc bags and scotch tape pins to a file card inside. It was not a pretty sight! The little bags looked better and, since they were smaller, the awards filled the bags, so the bags didn't flap around so much, if you know what I mean. It was also easier to read the labels. Yes, I know that sounds a bit picky. (Well, very picky.) But I pay for the bags myself, so it doesn't come out of pack money.

ScoutNut

Thanks! I didn't see the "12 pack" at the bottom of the page. That is an amazing price.

I didn't check out all the other components, but the Estes Wizard is $8.32 on Amazon, free shipping with Amazon Prime.

I found these mini baggies in Amazon -- I don't recollect seeing them here, so I thought I'd post. These worked well for awards at our recent B & G. I used the smallest size (2" x 3") for pins, beads and the lanyard pieces that hold beads. The largest size (4" x 6") was big enough for totems, badges, belt loops, and the little baggies. It made a nice, neat presentation.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=bagettes&x=0&y=0

Well, I was comparing the $90 price tag with some events in out local Council. Centennial Camporee was $20/person, Fri-Sun, bringing own tents. own food. Webelos were for the day only, $13 per scout (parents free) for a day jam-packed with events. Cub level day long events, with lunch included, $10/person. Upcoming Weboree, Fri-Sun, $20/person, own tent own food, but some cabin camping @ $32/night per person.

So, if I multiplied $32 per night x 2 and added food, I could see where a $90 per person cost comes from. But, to my mind it is a VERY HIGH price, compared with similar events I am familiar with. Also, what if a scout came with two parents or a sibling ($270!!).

I think $90/180 plus might possibly be OK as an OPTION, but there should also be an option to go for much less, i.e. own tent. own food, or go just for the day.

Well, this is something we used at home. It's pretty silly, but it works if you can make a mental picture of it:

Tiny, little hippo

followed cuddly kangaroos

Ornery crocodile terrifies

brave clean raccoon

A proper swim looks like a bad dog

Adult

Physically fit

Safe swim area

Lifeguard

Lookout

Ability groups

Buddy system

Discipline

I like this one -- the boys have made videos describing how to do most of the Tenderfoot - First Class requirements.

http://www.troop44bushkill.org/RankRequirements/Journey2FirstClass.htm

Well, we had a the same question about the Outdoor Activity Award, and I asked the go-to person at our local Scout shop. The answer was that, if a Webelos II attended camp in his second year, as well as his first, and, if he did the other required activities in his second year (not re-using the first year activities), then he would get the paw pin.

I know that is not 'official', but the person I asked is looked upon as a sort of authority, so I felt comfortable with it. Plus, it just sort of made sense: one year of camp + activities = one award.

OwntheNight

You really had me scared with the WICKING for a while -- thank you for correcting it, or I'd be googling away in vain.

That is a neat way of getting thread on -- one of those "Why didn't I think of that?" ideas. But I am wondering about a boy who had 20 Webelos pins -- that is a lot of thread whipping!

Having the parents involved is nice -- I wouldn't do it in our case, as some boys have a lot of achievements and some boys have very few. No need to over-emphasize that!

Eagle92

The unworthy arrow? Running from that idea as fast as I can go... although there was a super-confident boy last year who would have loved that!

Scoutfish

Thanks for the detailed plan. I can ask around and see if people want the completely plain arrows, one of the 'career arrows' or a boy-decorated arrow. I am hoping, obviously, that people will like one of the decorated arrow ideas, rather than the plain one.

moosetracker

Thanks!

I can live with the back and forth stuff. I see it on other threads and don't take it that personally. Plus the good advice is really GOOD! It is nice to have a board with so much expertise & experience.

Yes, the sled arrived in 4 days in 2 UPS boxes. Two people were able to put it together during a meeting and it looks great -- pretty much like the troop/packs' other sleds The SM and everyone from our Boy Scout troop like it too. (Everyone reviewed the specs before the sled was purchased.)

ScoutNut -- he said it was his AoL.

Hawkrod

That is a wonderful, practical suggestion!

Although I also love the idea of marking achievements, on a practical level, it could be difficult. Pack advancement records are not that great for past years, and it might be hard to find out what a boy had done as a Bear or a Wolf....

We have one more meeting before B&G/crossover. It could be a nice project. And I would like the boys to have something that didn't look as if it were off the shelf.

THANK YOU!

Wow, this board can sure be counted on for a lot of opinions!

Twocubdad & Clemlaw -- hello out there in curmudgeon-land! I The other day I was talking to someone who might be classified as a curmudgeon. I was in his office, and what is hanging prominently on the wall of this very successful businessman? You guessed it -- an arrow of light arrow on a plaque. I can't explain exactly why this is so important (haven't BTDT), but, on some level, I "get" it. Not to say that I don't get your point of view also.

Basementdweller -- I'm not looking for special recognition for any relatives of mine. Like you, if I am in any position where something might possible be construed as favoritism, I bend over backwards to make sure that doesn't happen.

But back to the arrow business, just where I am coming from:

1. Read the recent arrow posts here; think arrows look neat

2. Find out I have a number of B&G jobs, including providing arrows

3. Find out what arrows we got last year

4. Read last year's 'script' for B&G -- email people that we have some non-AoL boys this year, and I am concerned that they could feel marginalized, as a big part of the ceremony is awarding arrows.

5. Then I find out that all boys get arrows. So the problem of the possible marginalized non-AoL boys is taken care of. Now I am wondering if there is a way to recognize both the AoL and the non-AoL boys in an individual way.

I really like what artjrk said about keeping the awards personal. And I am concerned about ALL the boys.

I just read the last posts.

For what it's worth, the new sled is for another Webelos team -- not the one my son was on. NOW I know there are lots of ways to get a sled, but THEN, at the very end of a meeting, when I was asked to buy a sled ASAP, I did not know.

As for the survival kit, the parents are helping their boys put together kits. I posted here and spoke with people in our Boy Scout troop for ideas. This is shared with ALL the parents. One parent is buying space blankets to give to everyone who needs them. I have a box of surgical gloves (Boy Scout suggestion) and will GIVE these to the other parents. IMO, this is about teamwork. The question I've heard most often is, "Is there anything else I can do to help?" And that is the question I've asked too.

tdk

THANK YOU!

I get it about the colors. I am not sure how you added the thread with a knot only at the beginning and the end -- is it the glue that holds the joined threads together?

The raw hide for hanging is a good idea!

And the nameplates -- were they attached to the arrows, or separate?

Scoutfish -- I like what you have described. To me, it seems important that all the boys do not receive EXACTLY the same arrow, ie that there is a way of recognizing that some boys have worked extremely diligently, while at the same time not marginalizing the boys who were not able to work as consistently.

I'll have to think about this (ASAP) -- in our pack the ceremony is memorable -- there is a "fire" (dry ice and so on) on stage, and as each boy goes up to get his arrow from someone dressed as a Native American (more or less), the arrow flashes in a burst of light (using flash paper).

I'll probably post later with questions about the specifics of arrows -- found a 2006 post from here with a lot of good ideas....

Scoutfish -- I like what you have described. To me, it seems important that all the boys do not receive EXACTLY the same arrow, ie that there is a way of recognizing that some boys have worked extremely diligently, while at the same time not marginalizing the boys who were not able to work as consistently.

I'll have to think about this (ASAP) -- in our pack the ceremony is memorable -- there is a "fire" (dry ice and so on) on stage, and as each boy goes up to get his arrow from someone dressed as a Native American (more or less), the arrow flashes in a burst of light (using flash paper).

I'll probably post later with questions about the specifics of arrows -- found a 2006 post from here with a lot of good ideas....