eaglewings2002

Well....

I just received word that our CC has transferred his membership to another Pack, just days after sitting with us brainstorming ideas and sounding gung-ho and helpful. We need 5 boys to recharter, we have 3. So I guess that's it. Thanks for the help.

Hello,

It's been a long time since I have posted here. I am a committee member and Wolf leader for what was a decent size pack in South Louisiana (not New Orleans, but in that Council). Then Katrina hit. Our part of town was not as seriously affected as the side near the lake, but all of our families took damage of some kind, many serious, some have not returned to town at all but most simply are not interested in Cub Scouts right now.

After the storm, as soon as school started back we began meeting as a Pack. None of the dens had enough boys to meet separately, so we were meeting every week with den-type meetings and once a month as our regular pack meeting. This worked pretty well except that most times the person in charge of planning that week would get distracted and not plan anything. I did my best to have emergency plans but usually we were just winging it. The BOYS were having fun - flag ceremony, games, then a snack. Sometimes just running around but they were loving it. But the parents got bored with it and were unwilling to help make it better.

Now unfortunately the parents who were putting in the most time, our Asst Cubmaster and his wife the treasurer, have left the Pack. They are going to a church program they believe is better supported, as he says he does not feel the Council cares about the Cub Scouts right now. It seems true - we have not gotten much if any support from Council since the storm, although they claim to be working to rebuild the program. But the point is we have lost 2 of our most dedicated people AND their son from an already devastated Pack.

Our Cubmaster lost everything in the storm and is understandably unable to do as much as a Cubmaster would normally, although he IS giving it the best he can right now, bless him. Our Committee Chair works out of town and is often held up by the horrendous traffic around here these days. So most of it falls to me....however I have 6 children and can not do much myself.

We have asked for more help and we really can't ask for more...everyone is going through whatever they are going through and is doing what they can, I think....we can't ask for more money, we will try a fund-raiser in the spring but our finances are shot...I think the most of the parents don't care but every Tuesday my boy gets up and puts on his Wolf uniform to wear to school and I can not let the Pack die if I can help it.

We are going to have a parent meeting in a few days to talk about possible solutions and I said I would write to you folks to see if you had any wisdom to offer. One idea I had was to have a meeting type get-together once a month then a field trip type thing once a month, maybe having parents take turns and each plan one, rather than trying to meet every week for now, and try to get back to normal next Fall. I don't know what else to do, it is all so overwhelming. I hate to see anything happen to the pack but I don't see how we can go on like this much longer.

We never even got a fall round-up and get no interest in having one now from Council and have no idea how to go about doing it ourselves. We have one Tiger Cub and he is the son of the CC.

Thanks for any advice you may have!

If I recall correctly, the requirement is for a fire station OR a police station. So solve the problem - go to the police station instead.

I agree with the others. I see your point about parent being Akela, but the Go See It is supposed to be with the den, the book says it is supposed to be with the den, so that would be my guide. Gently tell the parents sorry, the req is to do it with the den.

Maybe you could talk with the fire station people and see if they could do sometrhing different than they did on the school trip. Plan a surprise. I don't think my boys would EVER get tired of going to the fire station. Do it later in the year so it is all fresh. Bottom line is, do what the req says.

Oh - and as far as them playing hooky with their dad's blessing. You can not control that. You can control whether they get the achievement marked off. that would be their choice then to not get it, not yours. (This message has been edited by eaglewings2002)

I agree with cubbobwhite - we have separated them for the past several years. It works great!

Great idea!! Here is my notes for October copied just as written. Times are just a guideline, not written in stone. A note about announcements - we ask the den leaders to cover this in the den so we don't spend so much time in the pack meeting on this. All announcements are on a sheet in minute detail, handed out at pack meetings, in den meetings and posted on our web site. We go over them briefly in pack meetings (concentrating on the one coming up next) and have a Q&A after the pack meeting closes. Only the new people are likely to stay for this and it only takes about 10 minutes.

************************************************

October 2004 Pack meeting agenda

They can do this as they arrive or whenever there is a chance throughout the evening.

6:45 - 7:00 arrival games, letters to soldiers (A table will be set up with the supplies we have collected. Boys can write notes to soldiers stationed in Iraq.)

7:00 opening ceremony Wolf Den

7:05 welcome and announcements (brief - Encampment is the main thing to mention)

7:10 Skit (Webelos 1), cheers, etc

7:15 Awards

7:30 Activities, games, etc

Elaine has a relay planned and also a craft that will take about 10-15 minutes.

8:00 closing thought CM

after - Q&A about upcoming events

LOL, YES!! Of course. We do use it. It never seems to work untill someone YELLS "Signs up!" We have said we are not going to yell that anymore but inevitably someone does. Maybe we could sit the whole hour with our sign up until it gets quiet. Is this really what it is going to take?? sigh.

Quick update - I quit as CC, which I guess motivated the other parents. We now have a CM, a new CC (I am gonna be his "personal assistant", LOL, and he will do the stuff that was giving me the biggest headaches, which is what he is good at so it is perfect!!) and several new committee members. Hope it stays that way!

So we have had 2 pack meetings and are concentrating on the fun activities and minimizing the "business" and anouncements (we have had meetings that were more of a business meeting where we just SAT the whole night). Input from scouts is that they are having a BLAST, and people are starting to come back. Our problems -

1. once they start having so much fun they end up running around like wild animals! The parents are sitting and chatting. Our games chairman is having trouble controlling things. A call for adults does not result in many. I know the answer is to make the parents help but wondered if anyone has any specifics that works for them.

2. siblings - running wild as well. Parents have been asked to control but do not. Besides bringing toys, any ideas??

3. PARENTS!!! As you can see above. They sit and talk even during awards ceremonies. Very disruptive - WORSE than the boys. HELP Please! This is by far the worst of the problems. I think if we solved this, the others would clear up as well.

Thanks in advance!!

I am a Tiger leader. I recruited an adult to make the phone calls. Most of mine do not have e-mail, and I do not do well with phone calls! I asked her to call back till she gets someone if at all possible, rather than leaving a message, and so far it seems to be working well.

This is my third son to go thru Tigers and the same thing has happened. I have a den of 11 because I don't want to split them up knowing many will drop out. (this is with DE approval) Sure enough we have averaged around 8 per meeting. OUt of 5 I think you are par for the course. Just do not quit because of this!! 1 or 2 boys can have as much fun. Do some really cool things and make sure the boys talk to the other boys about it at school! How really great and cool Cub Scouts is!!! That might help.

I had one of those at our first meeting too...he was dropped off and I did not notice till halfway through the meeting. Another parent had noticed and had stepped in with him so to me it looked as if he had a partner there. I did notice and spoke to the dad when he got there. I know these particular parents (at least the mom who dropped him off) had been informed of the partner requirement. The dad got very snippy (well, he may not have known) no matter how apologetic I was... wonder if we will see him back.

I did tell one parent this week thatshe could not send her boy with another boy and his partner. They had extenuating circumstances that made me feel sorry for them, but I do not want to set a precedent. I think I did the right thing but the parents do not.

I would keep him with his den.

Here, there is a grade called T-1 (transitional first grade) for those who did K but not quite ready for 1 yet. They can join Tigers then. the next year they are in first grade, but often not quite 7. We just keep them with their den, even though their denmates are a year ahead.

Your boy should be close enough to the age requirement. IMO, if he met the grade req.last year, why change him now? I just don't see the point.

Plus, it might hurt him, and it will hurt nothing to keep him where he is.

And I let our DE know I will be stepping down - or rather, BACK as of October 5 (day after our next Pack meeting)

I decided to serve as Committee chairman until a new CM was found, assuming a few weeks at most, in APRIL. Now it is abundantly clear that no one is interested and they are quite happy with me at the helm (all the while griping about me and my decisions - which they will not participate in - behind my back - let's just say I have definitely learned who my real friends are)

I have spent the past two weeks dealing with SNFS and our first pack meeting, trying to get info from 100% uncooperative people like how much $$ is in the treasury and which badges should be bought (that one was finally delieverd the night before the pack meeting, after asking for it since May. Needless to say we could not deliver on the badges, and had many disappointed boys and their complaining parents (who refuse to help but are happy to complain and point out my mistakes).

I have 6 kids including 3 YO triplets and I feel like my time for this will come in about 5 years or so. I love doing it but it is just NOT working now. Thankfully the DE agreed and told me to go with a smile and not feel guilty. He is doing what he can to help find leadership but has had no more luck than I did.

I will still be my son's den leader (Tiger). That I can handle and love. I will be happy to serve on the Pack Committee but I can NOT do it all myself!!

I have no idea what will happen to the pack. We will have to go to another if it comes to that. That will make all of us very sad, but I can not be held hostage like this any more. My boys (and me and DH!!) love Scouts so dropping out will never be an option.

I don't know what my purpose is for posting this, so I am sorry if it is inappropriate.

Thanks Bob White for the advice and help you gave me. In a few years I will probably be back for more!! Meanwhile I guess I will still hang out here as a leader.

(This message has been edited by eaglewings2002)

We have not had ours yet - scheduled for Sept. 7th. Hoping for lots of new guys! I know already our Tiger program will be huge - we have had lots of inquiries.

Still no Cubmaster yet, but the DE is meeting with a prospect tomorrow. Keep your fingers crossed!!

Hey, fotoscout -- FYI the 2 identical/1 fraternal is the most common combo of spontaneous (non-fertility) triplets!!

Trailpounder -- how do I know this??? b/c I have a set of my own, BBG, but they are only 3 (next month)

Coincidentally I will be a Tiger Partner myself this year. I have 3 older boys, 13, 11 and 6. Or in Scout lingo: Star, Webelos 2, and Tiger!

To answer the OP, if you end up with parents who don't want to stay, well then the boy doesn't get to stay. Sad but true, in Tigers the adult is not an option.

When #2 was a Tiger, and I was put on bed rest with the triplets, one of the other parents offered to take mine to a function. Both parents went so my son had an adult all to himself.

Trailpounder I agree with you - as POM's we are uniquely qualified to handle ANYTHING we get right??!! LOL

I was going to post that exact same response - wait a little, then send food. Make sure it is something you think kids would like. Maybe have pizza sent over (call them and tell them you are going to do this)

Fruit basket etc would be great too. I just think they will get more out of it if it comes AFTER the initial flurry of visitors is over. They are likely to have so much then they have to throw some away!

Thanks all.

Answers:

The CM retired in May. He was still CM when we rechartered, and is still on the books as CM.

The DC and DE know we lack a CM and I discussed it with the DC recently.

The CO won't be any help. They only provide a meeting place, and as far as I know take no interest in the Pack other than that. I don't even know if we have a COR. It is a school and closed for the summer so I can't even talk to them.

This is the reason I asked in another post if the two Webelos dens could meet together. We have decided to wait and see how school night goes to decide for sure, but meanwhile invite them to our den's summer activities. This is because I am meeting so much resistance to the idea from the other Web 2 parents (I really can not see why).

I have contacted the DE and asked for a meeting. Do you think I should meet just with him or have the commmittee present?

I am getting discouraged and a little fed up with my pack. This is my first year as CC and we still do not have a CM yet. I see our pack as in danger. We are having fewer and fewer Scouts each year. Very few parents are interested in helping out, and those that are, seem so far to only be interested in telling me my ideas stink (can't come up with any of their own though). In 2 dens the adults are acting like such babies that they may not let their kids come back. I have no idea what to do about THAT situation. We tried to have a parent meeting with one den and the DE to work things out and only ONE parent showed up (it was at his house!). I took on this position to help the boys, and I really want to help the boys have a quality program, but I did not expect all this. Is it like this everywhere? Is there anything I can do? Someone told me to just let the pack fold then and go to another. That sounds tempting and certainly the easy way to go. I don't want to think it is hopeless, but I do not have the energy to deal with this.

I will say I really WANT to do all I can. I'm just not sure I can do enough.

As far as I knew, my den is allowed to use the old book till they are done. The Webelos 1 den will have to use the new book.

In discussing this with the DE, here is what we figured. They can be 2 dens within a den, if that makes sense. Two patrols, but meeting as one. They can work on activity badges with us, and much of the stuff we do will count for something we have already earned. They will have to split off to work on Webeols rank req's or do at home.

I have NO idea what would happen the next year if they are still in the same predicament. Meet with the NEW Webelos? Where does it end? But then again, we just had a year where there were NO Webelos to graduate. I do NOT want to see this happen again.

Has anyone actually had this scenario? Or are we the lucky ones?

Has anyone mixed the Webelos 1 and 2 in the same den before? We are facing that possibility. The Webelos 1 den has only 3 boys in it, none of the parents are interested in being a leader. I spoke with the DE about having them join with my Webelos 2 den. We would still be separate dens, but working together. The DE thinks it would be fine. I just wondered if any of you have done it and how it worked out. Thanks!

Our Pack has always given the rank awards when earned, and we will continue to do so. I really never thought about it but in reading these posts I realize that I agree with the importance of instant recognition. Also I thought I have always heard that advancement is not the #1 thing in Cub Scouting? If so, then what difference does it make? I have been leader for 2 dens all the way through (well, #2 is now Webelos 2) and never had a problem with boredom! Yes, while working on a project I have had boys who have "done" this requirement before. He did not complain because #1 he is having a blast, and #2 I never make a big deal of what we are working on. After we finish the meeting (and the FUN) I will tell them to bring me your book, so I can sign off on _____". This takes care of any boy who has done thins already. (he simply does not get signed)

Face it, with Day Camp they earn quite a bit, so those boys are going to be bored all year as opposed to those who did not go? NO. It won't kill them to do something again, so long as you do not deliver the attitude that they are having to do it AGAIN so little Johnny can catch up.

EagleinKy, frankly I am not surprised either that the boy did not come back. What a letdown to earn something and have it minimized like that.

By the way, I do not like the suggestion that the 2003-2004 Tigers work on Tiger tracks this summer. Once school is out, they are WOLVES. The instructions in my book are quite clear, they are not to work on last year's stuff once they move up. They are Wolves -- Work on Wolf!!!!(This message has been edited by eaglewings2002)

Well, Eamonn, I must say you gathered from my post something that was not there. I do not go to these things with a closed mind. I go with a mind that is eager and excited to be doing what I am doing, and leave wondering why I wasted time away from my family for this. I have been gung-ho about every training I have ever been to, and come away feeling cheated.

Personally I think the problem is in the training. I think they take way too much time to teach something that need not take nearly as long. If you disagree, fine, I am happy that you have the time to deal with this. From the other replies I am not the only one who feels this way.

I still would like to hear an answer to my question, rather than simply being called closed minded. You trainers give me a reason to love the classes and I will.

This may be a different thread entirely, but I do have a bone to pick about training. I have gone to several different trainings over the past few weeks (Baloo, safe swim defense, safety afloat. Webelos leader outdoor training). In ALL cases I found I did not learn anything I did not already know (except for the lazer tag thing ). Now I am a former Girl Scout, GS leader, avid camper from childhood, certified in water safety, etc. I am not trying to come off as a know-it-all but what I want to know is, why can they not offer these courses online as they do Youth Protection? The bottom line is, while I love working with Cub Scouts, I am a volunteer wearing several hats, plus have six children of my own and all the "stuff" that entails. I DO LOVE the time I spend with the Scouts and the time I spend planning for things. I DO see the need for training. I feel the time I spent at these courses was pretty much wasted when I really had other things I needed to be doing, and could have done them online at my own convenience and in less than half the time. I told the training commissioner I am seriously reconsidering my participation in future courses and believe it or not, she agreed with me.

Is there a REAL reason (by that I mean other than "that's the way it is") that they can't offer these online?

I am trying to find the requirements for this patch but can not. Can anyone tell me or point me in the right direction? Thanks!!

I would like more info about this race too. I didn't get a clear picture from your description.

Do you have any pics you could point us to? TIA!!

I agree with acco40, we were told by our DE that they are "legal" on June 3. They can not go to camp, although in the past they have allowed leader's kids who were new Tigers to go to the Wolf den, IF the parent would lead the den. I don't know if they earn anything or not. Technically the camp is for those who have finished Tigers. though they are talking about adding a new Tiger den next year.

I have a son who will be a Tiger next year. He has been wearing an orange shirt since he was 3, and can't wait to be a "REAL" Tiger! When our Pack's Tigers graduated last month, I told him now he was a REAL Tiger. He said "no mom, (CM) said I would be one on June 1."

I do plan to have him wear his uniform to pack events this sumer and invite some of his friends from Kindergarten. Tossing around the idea of sending a flyer home with ALL the K boys to join us for at least one event.

I found a pack website with a very intriguing plan I think just might work for us. I sent the link out to my committee to look at; however for the past 4 or 5 days the link does not work! Is there anyone on here from that pack? It is pack 133 (Long Beach) this is the link. I REALLY would like more info on this plan!!!

www.cubpack133.com/budget.html