EagerLeader

Kittle,

My sons don't know because they have never asked, and I feel that a person's faith or lack of it is a personal choice. Going to church is something their friends do, and they don't, and they have never asked why. We attended Scout Sunday, and my Webelos asked me only "is all religion like that?" I told him I didn't know, and he dropped the subject.

There are other things they don't know about me either, like that I have a tattoo. It's just not relevant to daily life in our house.

OldGreyEagle,

I'm not trying to "set anyone up", and I apologise if it appeared that way. Scoutndad posted a thread about an agnostic parent he was having a problem with, and posed the question about others in Scouting who may be in the same religious situation. I only expressed my opinion, being one of those "religiously challenged" people.

I am now sorry I did. Maybe this is why the military has a "don't ask, don't tell" policy regarding homosexuality. No one in my Pack is going to find out about my lack of faith, and whatever decision I make will be my own and not the result of my being hounded by others. And my decision will not be posted here, as I no longer wish to participate in this discussion. Next time I will be more careful in my choices.

Uncleguinea,

"However, you can not, by definition fulfill an obligation to God because you don't believe in Him and therefore can not teach others to do so."

Where does it say that the DL needs to teach others about God? Cub Scouts is a family-oriented organization, and most rank requirements need to be worked on at home. The religion requirements should be completed in the home, with the parent and the religious leader. To try and teach religion in a Den meeting would be nearly impossible, as there are bound to be boys of differing faiths in the group.

It isn't a requirement to TEACH others their duty to God, only to acknowledge belief in a higher power.

Are you all also going to tell me that, since I don't believe in God, that I can't live in the USA because I can't recite the Pledge of Allegiance without being a hypocrite? That I shouldn't be allowed to handle US currency because it all has "In God We Trust" printed on it?

So now I know that BSA has a religious requirement for their adult volunteers. And yes, BSA is a private organization and as such can require anything they want of their members, however ambiguous the requirement may seem. Apparently I have a decision to make, and unfortunately the Pack just rechartered with my name as DL. Do I leave the den in mid-stream to an incompetent leader (trust me on this one)? "Ignorance of the law is no excuse."

CubsRgr8,

No, I don't wink at them when I recite the Pledge and Promise. No, I don't skip the phrase "to God". And no, I'm not teaching anybody to be dishonest with themselves.

No one in my den, including MY OWN SON, knows that I do not believe in God or any other related ideal. How can you accuse me of being deliberately deceptive???? I don't try to discuss religion with anyone, and when the topic comes up I either don't participate in the conversation or gently change the subject.

As I said before, I was unaware of the religious requirement to be a leader. I only learned of it a few days ago when reading another forum thread.

In our Pack there are two Wolf Dens, of which I am the leader for one. Three of the five active members of my den (two dropped out) are earning their Wolf at the April Pack Meeting. One is only two partial achievements away from finishing. And one, well, he won't get it.

We started meeting with the other Wolf den about 8 weeks ago. These boys aren't even CLOSE to finishing! I was asked by a boy from the other den, as I was handing out Instant Recognition beads, "will I be getting my Wolf badge too?" and I had to tell him "no, not this time". He nearly broke down! His den hadn't had a meeting since beginning of November, and nothing is signed in his book.

At the Den meeting last week, I made all the boys and all available parents sit down with us four leaders. I explained to them that there was only about 6 weeks left for them to earn their Wolf rank, and that it would not be simply handed to them if the requirements weren't met. I told the boys that if they didn't earn the Wolf rank, they wouldn't be held back in Wolves again, they would simply move on to Bears without the rank patch on their uniform.

I have made clear that the May Pack Meeting is the deadline for the boys to be presented their rank. Last year, some of these same boys were Tigers and were "given" their rank without attending meetings or doing the requirements. I had no input at that point. If the precendent has been set, how do I handle this situation this year, should it come up?

And, how do I handle this one... one of the boys in the other den has his Wolf rank because his father went to the Scout store and bought it for him!

Scoutndad,

This entire topic hasn't been an issue for me until I read your thread about the Agnostic Parent. Now I am questioning whether I am a fit human being, capable of teaching second-graders how to recycle. I am not a bad person! I'm not a homosexual, or a pervert, or anything else BSA declares is not "morally straight", I just don't happen to believe in a "higher power that grants favors". The whole issue of the Declaration of Religious Principle was not explained to me, and I honestly do not recall seeing it on the Adult Application I signed. There was also no mention of it at all during Basic Leader Training, or Leader-Specific Training.

I attended Scout Sunday with my Den. I sing Scout Vespers with them. I recite the Cub Scout Promise with them, and the Pledge of Allegiance. All of these make reference to God. Does this now make me a hypocrite, to BSA and our country?

One more question... hypothetically, if the CM knows I do not believe in God, and he is aware of the DRP but turns a blind eye (so to speak) to this fact, where is the harm?

I had religious training as a child, in a Congregationalist church. After I completed Sunday School and was old enough to attend church with the adults, my parents asked me if I wanted to go to church. My reply was, and still is, "no, this is all a big fairy tale". I hope I don't offend anyone by saying this, this is how I feel.

I have asked both my boys if they want to explore religion, and they have both said no. Should I force them to? No. I don't remember Girl Scouting having such a strong religion component to it, and I was a Girl Scout for 9 years. I truly think Cub Scouts is a terrific program, and our pack is well-run. But can I subscribe to believing in something I don't? NO.

EagerLeader

Good afternoon to all!

I followed this Agnostic Parent thread with great interest, both as a Wolf DL and parent. My older son is a Webelos I, and I have had a difficult time myself with the religion thing. We do not practice religion in our family, and while I was aware of the religious aspect of Scouting I have to plead ignorance on the Declaration of Religious Principle.

My son will not be moving into Boy Scouting next year because of the religion requirements, and that's not at our insistence, it was his choice. He feels that being forced to practice religion and pledge faith to a being he cannot believe in is unfair. I discussed it with him, and explained that as a private organization the BSA can require anything it wants of its members. We wiggled around the God requirement for his Bear rank, and we have wiggled around the Duty to God requirement for our Wolf scout. The wiggle room seems to be nearly gone.

As I said, I plead ignorance to the Declaration of Religious Principle. When I filled out my DL application there was no cover sheet to it, which is where the Declaration of Religious Principle appears. Had I seen it and read it, I never would have signed it. Apparently, I am not a good enough citizen to qualify as a leader. So, knowing this now, do I step down as DL and remove my kids from Cub Scouting?

EagerLeader