Pros and Cons of Bylaws

[fleetfootedfox 10]

I like Bob White's example of a scout unit being kinda like the church choir and the CO like the church. I think that points out pretty succinctly why we do not need bylaws. Only problem with the analogy is that if I am in the church choir I am probably also a church member, but if I am in the scout unit, I may or may not be otherwise involved with the CO.

 

Anyway, I think this is a complicated issue, because there are multiple questions. Here are some...

 

1) Does your unit have to have bylaws?

Answer: No.

 

2) Does your unit committee want to have bylaws?

Maybe the answer is also no, but everybody thinks that the answer to question 1 is yes. If they knew they don't have to have bylaws, would they?

 

3) Does the BSA want you to have bylaws?

Evidentally they don't care unless you are a Venturing Crew, and I think that is so the youth can learn from the process of having to write their own bylaws (not something for the adults). If you follow the Venturing model in a boy scout troop and are trying to have a boy-run troop, you will have to get the boys to write the bylaws.

 

4) Is there potential for problems caused by bylaws?

Yes. For example, you may later find you are constrained by rules that are too restrictive. Also, some people will want to follow them to the letter of the law and others will choose to ignore them, so you will end up with some fights over them. What if the people who like the bylaws are the troop committee and the people don't are the scoutmaster and assistants? They are the ones going on the outings and they have to be on board if you are going to get compliance. But then are you really wanting to get into those fights?

 

5) What should you use if you don't have bylaws?

I think it has been adequately pointed out that there are BSA publications which tell you how to run your unit. If people choose to ignore those, they can just as easily ignore your bylaws.

[mmhardy 10]

BW. This has nothing to do with Scouting. This has to do with what how our government implements the law. Its interpretation does not care if its a Scouting unit or a group of FFA, PTO or CYO. If your not prepared with being at least somewhat astute with the IRS expects., then your on your own. Will an audit happen to your specific unit. Most likely not. However lady luck shines on those most prepared.

 

The law is not logical, it is what it is.

[mmhardy 10]

BTW.. the examples you give are not applicative because the schools has already established itself as an Educational Institution. In my neck of the woods most secular educational institutions have already dumped Packs and Troops from its charter support.

[Bob White 20]

You are incorrect on this mmhardy. You are confusing a scout unit with a corporation. The Scout unit is merely a youth activity within the parent organization. It is not required by any law to have bylaws. It is no different than a chess club at a school. The School district is a corporation and required to have bylaws that define the corporation, The clubs within the school district are not corporations and are not required to have bylaws.

 

You have a misunderstanding of the structure of scouting especially at the unit level.

 

[emb021 16]

mmhardy-

 

Bob White is correct in what he is stating.

 

The IRS doesn't require scout troops to have bylaws.

 

The chartered org WOULD have bylaws, because they are most likely an incorporated body (even if they are just a "Friend of Unit X" type). Actually, at a minimum they'd need a corporate charter (also known as articles of incorporation or articles of association), which is a legal document.

 

But even in the case of a "Friend of Unit X" type group, the bylaws would just define the charter org, and have NOTHING to do with the troop committee or troop itself.

 

I am a member of several local groups who have bylaws. NONE have bylaws because the IRS requires it. (the IRS doesn't give a dame about our bylaws). We have bylaws because our parent organizations require them.

 

 

[fleetfootedfox 10]

Please read this:

http://tinyurl.com/6xs4uj

 

This bsa doc clearly states that scout units should not incorporate or apply for their own tax-exempt status. If a unit, which is not a legal entity, is tax exempt, it is only because it's chartering organization is tax exempt.

 

As it is clearly stated that the unit is not a legal entity, it follows that the law does not require it to have bylaws.

[Frank17 10]

After having been a member of groups that both used bylaws and did not use them, I would definately reccommend doing without them if at all possible. If you must have them, make them as specific and flexible as possible. Too many times, arm-chair lawyers spend valuable volunteer time arguing about what they mean instead of trying to resolve the issue of the day.

 

In our Troop, we have never had to go beyond National's guidelines.(This message has been edited by frank17)

[IM_Kathy 32]

CalicoPenn - you are correct that most of what is listed in our troop handbook is listed in one BSA lititure or another, but how many families in your troop have all those in their possession. Having all of those listed in one location for the scouts and their parents/guardians is handy because they don't have to run around and look here and there and this book and that.

 

The handbook is sent out as a PDF file and is updated every 6 months - though the only changes made are the roster, leadership, and tentative schedule - and the tentative schedule is really just dates for meetings and campouts

 

as for the "redundent" our roster lists boys (alphabetical order) with their contact info and parent/guardian info... patrol breaks down patrol name with just the boys in it listed... youth leadership & adult leadership lists position and name of person or people in that position. while it may be seem redundent - it is broken down this way so that leadership positions and patrol pages can easily be changed twice a year when there are changes made.

 

in our troop the boys are the ones that need the MBC sheet... they look up what badge they are wanting to work on contact that councilor to make sure the councilor is free to work on it at that time (some MBC do have times when they are too swamped with other stuff that they need to wait a couple of months before starting that MB) and then the boy goes to the SM for approval to begin work

 

as to the maps - very handy to have already in boys and parents possession... our summer camp has a parents night where the parents come 1 of the nights and has a meal with their scout and the rest of the families. It's also done the night of tap-out for OA. So, troop already knows that each adult has a map to camp and a map of grounds to find the campsite for when they arrive they just check in and go to that site.

 

like I said at the beginning... yes, much of the items are in some book or publication from BSA, but the handbook is handy because the boys and parent/guardian can have it all in one place. whether you like it as it is or not doesn't really matter - it's what our troop likes... the original post was asking what should be included and so I posted what is in ours - simple as that.

 

[emb021 16]

"CalicoPenn - you are correct that most of what is listed in our troop handbook is listed in one BSA lititure or another, but how many families in your troop have all those in their possession. Having all of those listed in one location for the scouts and their parents/guardians is handy because they don't have to run around and look here and there and this book and that."

 

I can see good and bad points about this.

 

I would prefer that instead of giving the information, that people are instead pointed to the appropriate BSA literature. I think the problem is less that its located in various BSA literature items, but most not know WHERE its listed. And have copies of those items so that the parents can take a look at them, if they desire.

 

If one is just repeated what is in the BSA literature, that's one thing. But what if BSA updates things and you missed updating it. And too often what some troops do is NOT just repeat what's in the literature, but give their own 'spin' or interpretation.

 

 

For myself, based on my past experience in troops, I would prefer a 'troop handbook' limit itself to:

 

* giving a high level overview of things

* point people to the appropriate BSA literature for the details

* give information that is unique for the troop and NOT in contradition with BSA policies (ie, no attendence policy nonsense)

* details on the troop (roster, etc)

 

And prehaps supplement this with at least a once a year 'parent orientation' (near when you bridge over most of your cub scouts) to help ensure most parents understand what scouting and your troop does things vs how it was done in cub scouts or the like.

 

 

[fleetfootedfox 10]

IM_Kathy,

 

The original post you're talking about was in a different thread. This thread is about bylaws.

 

Unlike a parent handbook, bylaws are supposed to be binding and difficult to change (normally requires 2/3 vote).