Council Money Management Concerns.....

[Fat Old Guy 11]

" Ultimately, squeaky wheels get oiled"

 

Or removed and thrown in the trash.

[SMT376Richmond KY 10]

We had a smilar incident with our fall camporee. We were told by our DE that if we set camporee fees higher then the profits from camporee could be used to purchase training materials for our defunked district training program. When it came time to purchase the manuals etc. there was no money and line item for the district stuff at all. Thus we have decided to do camporee's as cheap as possiable since a Scout is Thrifty. I personally have lots of boys that can't make camporee at $15-20 per Scout.

 

I'd say since your COPE course makes a profit call for an audit to find out where the money went. They'll have to account for it. If they won't audit and tip to the local news media on possiable missing money at the local council is always and option. Happened at our Council last year.

[Bob White 20]

Whoa!!

 

The council doesn't set the price for camporees the volunteer chairman does. If the event lost money are you going to call for an audit on that too? Are you personally prepared to foot the bill for an audit?

 

Before you start making potentially danaging claims to the media how about taking some time to cool off and learn how a non-profit organization works.

 

All incoming monies go into the general fund except for special funds such as trusts. The money in the general fund is then budgeted depending on the local needs of the council based on its specific priorities, all of which are determined by volunteers.

 

Of course the COPE course makes money. Would you prefer it lost money? The hope is that every event makes a little just so that the program can continue to be maintained each year. In case you haven't noticed the cost of stuff gets a little higher each year. If every activity either lost or broke even you wouldn't be able to sustain the program.

 

This attitude of "them and us" really burns me. Oxcops you must have some great program skills that is why you are running the COPE course. If you had financial skills you would be on a different committee.

 

Consider doing the job you were asked to do as well as you can. If you don't think you can do that, that's your decision. But before you start complaining about the financing you need to learn more about it, and for heavens sake ignore hot headed advice like audits and media threats.

 

If I were the Scout Executive and you did that I would seriously consider yanking your membership on the grounds of being a huge pain in the neck, or at the very least see that you never served in a capacity outside of the unit again.

 

Most volunteers serve in a very confined area of service and have no idea how a corporation works and seldom take the time to learn. Thats fine as long as you do the job you have accepted. But if you want to make waves at least have the courtesy to learn how the ship operates.

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Future Games 10]

a neighbor used be a director in the county recreation department. the rec dept is pretty big since our county is nearly a million people and there aren't many towns in it. the rec dept runs the public pools, recreation centers, sports leagues and offers all sorts of classes ranging from dancing to clock repair.

 

my neighbor said that of all the sections only the part that ran the classes made any money. everything else cost the taxpayers money.

 

the instructors for the classes were all independent contractors. the rec dept would handle publicity, facilities, registration and collect the fees. at the end of the class the instructor would get his cut.

 

since the rec dept is part of the government all of the class fees went into the general fund and the instructors would be paid out of the rec dept budget. more money comes in than goes out so eveyone should be happy. not the case. a new administration noticed that the rec dept was payin a fortune for instructors and the edict was issued to cut this expense.

 

the solution was for the instructors to collect all of the fees from the students and then pay the rec dept their share at the end of the course. same net result but there is no longer an expense for instructors.

 

the problem is that the county has lost the income that they could have off that money. not all instructors pay what they owe on time and someone has to hound them. the net result is that it costs the taxpayers money but the budget watchers are happy.

 

 

[NWScouter 9]

For many scouters, running events, breaking even mean bringing in enough money to cover the direct costs. What is hard for many to see is the overhead, the support the scout office staff gives, the DEs time, upkeep on the camp, the cost of the council newsletter and other general expenses.

[FScouter 24]

Any event, COPE, Camporee, training, or whatever absolutely must generate a surplus. The income from the event or program must exceed the expenses to produce the event. In addition, the surplus must be enough to pay the heat and light bill back at the council office. Our council requires a 15% surplus, or the event will not happen. Council overhead expenses are way over 15%, which is paid from other sources such as FOS. The bottom line is that the council will sink a little bit every time an event takes place that does not generate a surplus.

 

I think sometimes there is an unreasonable hope or expectation that an event will still take place even if the expense budget for the event is cut. Somehow the volunteers will make it happen. (Read pay for it out of your own pocket.)

 

I'd suggest you bolster your case for the income that COPE will generate. Part of your presentation should be that without the upgrades, there will be no income and no surplus to help pay the heat and light bill.

[Fat Old Guy 11]

OXCOPS, you must remember that Bob White knows EVERYTHING about how BSA is run and that since that is the way that BSA is run that is the only way that BSA should be run (unless someone up the ladder decides to change things) and for you to question things is to be disloyal and a bad Scouter.

 

Common sense doesn't enter into things. The council wants the thousands of dollars that you generate each year but they aren't willing to spend anything on maintenance. When your program is shut down, I'm sure council will complain about the loss of revenue and then raise fees elsewhere to make up the shortfall.

 

Every business in the world has some activities that generate little or no revenue. The janitors at IBM have little to do with revenue generation so they get paid out of the excess revenue from computer sales. However, if the choice had to be made that either new soldering irons or mops could be bought this month, it is most likely that the mops would be put on the back burner because you can't make computers without solder (don't start with talk about surface mounted devices and wave soldering, etc. this is a metaphor). Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to work that way with BSA.

 

To you an any other rational person, it would make sense to say that COPE generated $5,000 last year and since they need $2,000 for repairs, that $2,000 could come from the $5k that it generated and the general fund would still be ahead by $3,000. Unfortunately, that $5,000 is gone. Long gone.

 

BSA style thinking is why every church that I've ever attended has dozens of little funds set up by the men's group, the women's group, the choir, etc.. They know that if the money that they are raising ever gets into the general fund, it will be GONE. "New robes for the choir? Sorry, no money." "What about the $3,000 that we raised last year?" "Oh, we spent that on new candlesticks."

 

 

 

 

[Twocubdad 665]

If instead of going to the council for a separate budget request, what if you ask the camp director or ranger for the materials? (I'm assuming your COPE course is at your council's camp and is part of the summer camp program.) If so, the camp director has equal responsibility to make sure the course meets BSA standards. Secondly, he should have some descretion in his budget to shift some dollars your way.

 

At least our day camp works that way. Once the budget is approved, the camp director (me) has a good bit of leeway in how the money is spent within that budget. If all our safety glasses disappeared during the winter at the council warehouse (which is highly probable), then I've got the authority to move money around within my budget to replace the glasses. Otherwise we don't have a BB range this year. (And oh by the way, the new glasses stay in my pack's storeroom next winter.)

 

$100 for glasses is no big deal. $1400 for your COPE course is in another league. Maybe you can break it down into smaller phases, and/or convince the camp director to pay for part of it out of his camp budget, the ranger to pay for part of it out of his maintenance budget and that sort of thing.

[OXCOPS 10]

First, let me say "Thank You" for all the replies so far. I had no idea that I would get so many.

 

Now, I would also like to say that I am not in the mood to start calling for audits or going public to the media. That will only lead to bigger problems down the road. It might get us the little bit of money this time, but what about the next time? I just don't think that is an option at this point.

 

BobWhite is right. I am not familiar with how the BSA operates financially. That was part of the reason I started this thread. I know enough to know that I know very little about that.

 

But, I do know how to run a successful COPE program. I guess that is why they put me in charge of it. Part of my job is to make sure that the course complies with the standards set up by the BSA on the national level. In order to do that, repairs and course work must be done. This costs money.

 

As mentioned above, I am just trying to get the council to see the amout of money we make FOR THEM. Then, get them to see that it will take a little to get alot. You have to spend a little money here and there to contine to protect and ensure your investments.

 

I'm not trying to rock the boat. I'm just trying to run the most effective and beneficial program I know how.

[OXCOPS 10]

Twocubdad-

 

I am taking that route with course equipment, such as rope, harnesses, etc. The Camp Director is going to get some of that stuff through his budget.

 

The Ranger is the former COPE coordinator. He asked for the building materials before I did. Believe it or not, I am having better luck than he is.