First year WEBLOS asking about advancing to Boy Scouts from

[JerseyScout 10]

Alright, here is the background for this one, I could use the advice of some folks who may have been here before.

 

I have a mother in my troop (her eldest son is most of the way through his first year of Boy Scouts) who wants to jump her son from being a first year WEBLOS right into Boy Scouts. I had pretty much ignored this when it was mentioned a few months ago in passing, as it was maybe two or three sentences ending with a half-joke that "it would be nice to simplify the kids schedule some!" I feel for the mother, who has three sons and a husband who travels for bussiness most of the week, but I didn't feel that was a really good reason for having a kid join Boy Scouts early.

 

She approached me again this weekend, this time more serious about it. It turns out that the second son was held back a year in school, and is turning 11 in a few weeks despite only being in 4th grade. His WEBLOS group is full of bums (they have had three meetings since September and one outing, which was a joint camping trip with my troop that we did all the lifting for). As she has served as an "involved volunteer" for both of her older sons dens and is the Den leader for the youngest son, she knows the program and has worked very hard with her middle son on her own and by using resources outside of her pack to complete most of his Arrow of Light requirements (he needs just two more pins).

 

From my point of view, I'm now fine with this. The kid has been on four outings with us (including a camping trip) and already lumps in with the troop when they are running around waiting for meetings to start. He's old enough, has the proper requirements completed, and (I feel) is at a level that he could handle Boy Scouts, even if he would join at the beginning of 5th grade instead of 6th grade. I also know, since there is already a sibling in the troop, that the mom is not trying to jump her kid into Scouts so that he can rush to Eagle by age 11 1/2 or whenever parents are pushing for it to be earned now.

 

The problem is that his Den leader has told the mother that there is no way that her son can join Boy Scouts. She was told WEBLOS is a two year program, and that her son could not have earned the pins he did because they were not earned with the entire den.

 

The two year part is balony, but do pins have to be earned with the den? Is there a way that this could have happened? Any ideas on how to handle this without upsetting the den leader, who also happens to be Packmaster (although the Pack is severely hurting, its a miracle it hasn't folded yet)?

[AnaMaria 10]

The problem with earning pins as a Webelos is that the parent is no longer Akela and able to sign off on requirements. The Webelos den leader, or someone they designate, is Akela at this level. Unless the requirement specifically says, it does not have to be done with the den. It would be up to the den leader/designee to sign off or not. I think most reasonable leaders would sign off after a little talking with the scout to determine that they had in fact completed the requirement.

 

Given the situation, I can't see any reason to keep the boy in cubs after his birthday.

[Basementdweller 608]

At eleven they can join boy scouts with out the arrow of light.

 

 

My son will jump from first year weebs to boy scouts. here is how it is gonna happen.

 

Resident camp Aquanut, geologist, sportsman, Scientist, outdoorsman and readyman. I have asked the troop to put on two activity pin weekends, hopefully the boys will earn one per weekend. My son will turn 10 in October 2010 which means the earliest he could cross over is April 2011. I hope that he will have his AOL completed by Christmas enabling the cross over at 10 1/2.

 

He is ready to cross over now, he has camped with the troop for years already, I am ready to cut the apron strings and send him on his scouting experience.

[Scoutfish 16]

Not a Boy scouter myself, just a CUB scouter, but from what I have read, he obly has to be 11 to join.

 

From my perspective,.... get that boy in your troop before he decides that Cub/Boy scouts is not for him. His den is slowly dieing and dragging Cubs and potential scouts with it.

 

He already comfortable,. know how your group works and fits in well.

 

Forget the pins, as much as it would suck. consider it a moot point and just get that kid into a group that functions!

If you get the pins straightened out...great! If not,.tell him and his mom to count his losses and move on!

[Twocubdad 665]

I would only allow skipping the second part of Webelos under rather clear extenuating circumstances. In my time as Scoutmaster, I've had a couple parents ask to skip Webelos II and join the troop. To date, I've not had one where I thought it was a good idea. But it sounds to me that this situation qualifies.

 

My best advice to you would be to tell the mom the boy is certainly eligible to join the troop and is welcome to do so. If he submits an application to the troop, the Den Leader/Cub Master has no role in the situation. (Maybe this is why its generally a bad idea to be both DL and CM.)

 

On the other hand, you have no role in whether or not the boy earns his Arrow of Light. I envision only bad things if you get in the middle of that. I would make that clear to the mom and that she has to work that out with the pack. Unfortunately it may mean a choice for them between moving on to the troop and finishing the AoL. Their call.

[Oak Tree 15]

What Twocubdad said.

 

The boy cannot meet the technical requirements for Arrow of Light - so the pack is more than within their rights not to present him with it, even if he has done all the pins.

 

But if you're a Scoutmaster and a boy comes to you who is eligible to join and wants to join, why would you turn him down? Sign him up.

[Beavah 205]

Yah, JerseyScout, if the troop is OK with accepting the lad, and the lad is eligible to join (which he is at age 11), then if you're presented with an application I think you just go with it.

 

Most of the time, it's a very bad idea to have a 4th grader jump into a Boy Scout troop, eh? Bad for the boy, bad for the troop, usually da result of a pushy parent who doesn't understand the program well enough. This sounds like it falls under "the exception that proves the rule."

 

Beavah

 

[trainerlady 10]

Jersey

 

As a Webelos I den leader I'd have no problem signing off on pins outside my den meetings if they were done at a community sponsored event. By this I mean, a pin class held at a local science center, museum or nature center,YMCA's, etc. I also wouldn't have a problem with ones done at a scout camp, be it a daycamp or resident camp, or other scout event (merit badge mania comes to mind). All I ask for from those events is a requirements sheet signed off by the instructor so that I know what he did. I do have problems signing off on ones that done at home that aren't designed to be done there. Scholar, family member and handiman are good do at home pins.

 

If the scout can produce completed signed off requirement forms or a signed off book with the instructor's name, the pins are his. If he brings me completed worksheets such as those found on www.meritbadge.com or www.usscouts.org in his own hand writing and tells me about the completed items then the pin is his. I will however remind him that it would have been nice to know that he was working on a pin by himself.

 

We are fortunate to have dozens of locations for scoouts to go to work on pins in my area. I try to keep abreast of what is happening when and offer it to my boys. Not everyone can go to each class, but it's an option we have. In fact most of my den has done 6 pins using science center/museum oppotunities.

[BadenP 93]

And all of these situations just go to prove it is time to do some reshuffling of the Webelos program which is where the BSA are losing boys in greater numbers than any other program. 2 years of doing the exact same thing, the exact same way will be a bore to most boys, and they deserve better.