DougWaterfield

It's amazing how moving a topic like new pants can be, especially in a mostly male organization!

I am very happy with the new pants and had a chance to field test them at a campout last weekend. Despite the dewey mornings I was dry and comfortable. I also did not notice any problems around the campfire even though I was playing chief cook and bottle washer.

I have a question though, if any of the supply folks are still reading this thread. Will these pants be coming out for the Venturing uniform as well? I am starting a new crew and I don't want to even buy the standard style if these will be an option.

Thanks!

Count me as another "Life for Lifer". I did have parental encouragement up to a point. My dad was our Scout Master and I can never thank him enough for doing that. We even went through an Ordeal together and joined the OA. Over the last few years I've certainly learned a lot about what he did for my brother and I.

I say "up to a point" because I think my father burned out on Scouting. We had an active troop, one of those that was mainly interested in camping over merit badges and rank. For several years we were doing really well and were growing. Then we seemed to hit a slump. We had a number of the older Scouts leave the troop. Very few new members were joining. My dad had a falling out with his ASM. In a few months the troop just folded up and was gone.

I think my Dad under other circumstances would have fought harder to keep it going. It probably didn't help that my brother and I were both getting into other things. I recall being very upset about it, though, and having a long talk with my dad about wanting to make Eagle. He said that I could try but that it would be really hard and besides I would have to go through a board that might dispute some of the troop's records. Looking back on it, he may have been trying to challenge me but it did not seem that way to me at the time. I gave up Scouting and concentrated on school-related activities.

I regret very few things in life, but I do regret that decision. I don't blame my dad for it but I do wish he had been a little more encouraging at that point. I don't think it would have taken much for me to keep going.

Now that my older son is a Cub and my younger son is dying to become a Tiger, I find myself thinking a lot about how I will deal with it when they want to quit Boy Scouts. I'm sure the day will come when it is no longer cool and there is a sport or activity that they want to pursue that gets in the way. I'm not sure how I'm going to handle it. I won't force them to stay in but I don't want them to look into their sons' eyes someday and wish they had earned their Eagle.

Count me in the "rollercoaster" crowd. There are times I love it and times I wonder what I've gotten myself into, especially lately. I started as a Tiger Den Leader last year after being away from scouting since high school. I had a great year though I certainly struggled at points. I got to work with my son and other boys in a setting where I felt I made a real difference. Definitely a personal high point.

This year has started out really well and my core group of boys have made me proud. I had pleasant visions of seeing them through to AOL and beyond. An even higher point.

Then came that really big first drop on the ride. Our current CM has been asked to resign for reasons I won't go into here. He is a great guy and has volunteered so much of his time and energy...but the committee has good reasons for their action. The committee has turned to me to be the new CM. The last few weeks have been one long stretch of stress as the committee tries to deal with the situation without losing a great Pack and I struggle with leaving my den to be CM.

My son cried when I told him I would still be at the den meetings but would no longer be his DL. Talk about a low point.

Now, maybe, the next rise is starting. One of the best parents in my den has stepped up to be the new DL. Our Pack is strong but I think I can help it be better -- I'm finally starting to look forward to taking on this role despite the circumstances. I've gotten votes of support from all the leaders in the Pack. So we seem to be climbing up again.

At last night's Den Meeting (they don't know what's happening with leadership changes yet) we made those goofy little catapault kits. For many of the boys, this was the most involved craft project they had ever taken on...and of course, being boys, they love the fact that it shoots stuff. At the end of the meeting, one of the boys grabbed my arm and said "Mr. Waterfield, you rock!" His big grin made me feel about 10 feet tall ... and killed me because I know at the next meeting I'll be telling them I won't be their DL anymore.

Is that the next hill ahead? Hold on!

Doug

(ok, so I overdid the metaphor....)

(sorry for the repeats, not sure why that happened!)(This message has been edited by DougWaterfield)

(This message has been edited by DougWaterfield)

ScoutNut - you're correct, an opening ceremony with the PoA is not a program requirement. Once I looked back at my early notes I saw that it was "highly recommended" by my Pack. This is the sort of thing I hope to continue through our Den Leader meetings -- we can share program ideas and discuss things like how meetings should be conducted.

On the other hand, the PoA does come up in several requirements of one of the Wolf achievements. Assuming the TDL moves up with his den, he'll have to deal with it next year! My Den has one of the boys lead the PoA every week to satisty one of the requirements. I also brought in a recording of Red Skelton's speech about the PoA and played it for the boys (you can download it many places on the web).

I am a little puzzled about the "too young" argument. Our school system has the students saying the PoA in Kindergarten. How are 1st graders too young? I agree, that's hogwash.

As for whether uniforms are required or not -- I have been reading the forums over the past few weeks and I've seen many long winded arguments about what is or isn't required by the scouting program. I don't want to get drawn into that sort of debate. Our pack requires uniforms of our adult leaders and I agree with that policy. Honestly I cannot see how your TDL can expect the boys to wear their uniforms properly without setting an example!

Doug

I would suggest that you somehow make it part of their training. Whether or not they have prior Scouting experience, they need to be trained as DL and ADL. If you work it into that context it may be more acceptable to them. If you have a regular Den Leader's meeting, have a topic on how meetings should be run. Make sure that you emphasize why the PoA is important as part of Scouting (doing your duty...). Same thing could be done for the uniform issue.

If the indirect approach does not work you may have to sit down with them to discuss it. If you do, I'd suggest that you make it clear that this is not just your opinion -- this is what the Cub Scout program requires.

It's a touchy situation. Good luck!

Just my 2 cents,

Doug

Last year was my first year as an adult leader, after being away from Scouts since high school. My older son was interested and I certainly wanted him to be in scouting. I was also looking forward to following in my Dad's foot steps, who had been my SM and OA mentor years ago.

We all gathered at a recruiting meeting at the elementary school and -- after the usual spiel and paperwork -- we were told that someone must be the DL, and that person must be chosen that night. Adult applications were handed out. I was certainly interested but thought I should get my feet wet first, so I signed up for ADL. Later that night I got a call from the CM telling me I was the DL, because no one else was available and I was the only former Scout amongst the parents.

I had no idea what to do as a DL. I had not been a Cub Scout for over 20 years! I could only recall two things clearly -- winning the Pine Wood Derby one year and my first overnight campout as a Webelo. We had not even had Tigers when I was in.

Being a geek I surfed the net, bought every manual I could find, and attended the training at our District. I boiled things down to a few key things that helped me survive:

1) We met four times a month; two Den Meetings, a Pack Meeting, and a Go See It.

2) Parents attended all functions, period. The only exception was made for a single mom with a bizarre working schedule and she still attended 80% of things.

3) Den Meetings had a simple structure that we always followed. Pledge of Allegiance, Sharing, Fun, Discovery, awarding beads, closing (usually the scout promise). The scouts seemed to catch on quicker than the parents!

4) I made sure the Go See Its were fun and as different as possible from the field trips that they already go on for school, etc. We went to an Arena Football game, hiked in the woods, visited an airport control tower, etc.

5) Emphasized that Tigers was about participation as much as achievement. This seemed to go well with the parents who were concerned about their sons handling Scouts.

I graduated 9 out of 13 boys. Of the four who did not graduate, two never showed up to a single meeting (even though they payed their dues...I still don't understand that) and two dropped out in favor of sports.

Overall I feel good about how I did. Looking back on it I think I could have done better in the early months with the knowledge I have now. Which brings me to my questions.

Our Pack has its Den Leaders stay with their Dens as they progress through the program. The father in me likes this because I want to stay with my son, not to mention my other Scouts. On the other hand, we are basically getting a random adult leader each year for Tigers. As someone else pointed out this puts an inexperienced leader into a situation where it's important to indoctrinate the parents as much as the kids into scouting. How do most packs handle this? Do you have Den Leaders that stay at a certain level of Scouts from year to year?

I am concerned about this because in a few weeks I will be taking on the role of CM. I hate leaving my den but it's necessary. As I think about next year and recruiting, I want to make sure that the new leader for our Tigers is chosen in a process that is a little less random. One thought is to ask one of our experienced DL's to agree to be ADL for the new Tigers. They can help the new DL settle in, get trained, and plan the first few meetings. My other thought would be to have the first few meetings scripted out in advance.

What approaches have you taken in selecting / training a Tiger Den leader?

Thanks,

Doug

As others have pointed out, the main thing that we should do as Scouters is make sure that we are being the "local heroes" by doing what we can to provide leadership and vision to our units. We may not be able to change the world but we can certainly make an impact on our own little corners of it!

Having said that, I too have concerns about overall direction. Here is my reasoning.

Scouting is a movement. That purple crest we all wear signifies the fact that it is, in fact, a world wide movemnt whose goal is to help young men become outstanding citizens.

Movements are usually driven by people whose passion and vision attract followers. Many movements fail when the visionaries die or fade away. More mature movements, like Scouting, can carry on without them because other people take up the same vision and continue to breath life into it -- that's you and me and other Scouters doing what we can to keep the movement alive. This is why Scouting has continued for so many years without a single focus person for its vision. Generations of leaders have continued the teachings and traditions of Scouting without the need for another Baden-Powell.

There are two possible problems though. First, there is the danger of stagnation. Without a strong person or group driving the movement it might begin to atrophy and eventually fail. I think that Scouting is mature enough that you will see places where it is stagnant, others where it is shriking, and still others where it is growing. My sense of it is that Scouting is having a resurgence -- but that may just be a local phenomena!

The second problem is that Scouting is under assault from the outside. Public opinion in some places is turning against Scouting and that is where a strong national spokesman / visionary would help. BSA does seem to be working to defend itself, and it has allies in Congress and other places (as shown by the recent resolution in the House of Representatives), but these efforts do not do much to sway public opinion. No national figure seems to making the case for the BSA. Without that kind of "hero", the press reports on what the opposition has to say and therefore influencing public opinion.

Do we need a hero to run our packs or troops or even the BSA? No. We are blessed with volunteer heroes at all levels of leadership. We may, however, need someone who can represent Scouting to those who do not understand or suppport our ideals and policies.

Just my two cents,

DW