Cecille25

1 hour ago, Eagle1993 said:

I have not seen any details on how to properly conduct a youth protection violation investigation in either a committee or chartered org handbook.  I expect BSA would not want committee chairs or chartered orgs to be leading these investigations.  This isn't a volunteer's role.  

 

Correct the ones doing the investigation are at council and national level. CC are not supposed to be doing this and are not given a copy of the report submitted to national. So this CC telling me that she was told I had to give her a copy was absolutely not correct. 

5 hours ago, mrjohns2 said:

For future reference, is this documented somewhere? 

I called national and spoke to them via their hotline. The Committee hand book doesn’t specify how to deal with YPT infractions since they are not really the group to investigate a report. The Charter Organization Rep handbook is the one really supposed to be involved with council and resolving diputes along side the organization exec. They are also the ones who are supposed to make sure that they appoint those in the committee and troop that will uphold the scout values since they indirectly represent the charter organization. In all my years they have never had an say as to who is picked for any position… it was just whomever stepped up to the plate. 

To conclude my son’s were wronged by this Troop and its organization. They agree that it is ok for grown men to bully kids. This council has wronged them by not listening to their story and choosing to turn a blind eye… not to question.  The organization rep wants to NOW meet with me and too little too late. We are moving to another troop. Going to get them through their eagle as soon as possible. Sad that 9+ years in the pack/troop and  working with multiple SM only to realize that it was for not. 

8 hours ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

Yes, the Committee may be looking into this because the Scoutmaster (who works for the Committee!) brought the incident to their attention and asked for intervention.  That may be the entire reason the Committee asked to meet with parents and Scouts who were involved... as opposed to anyone "leaking" a report of a YP violation from the council.

The Committee may be approaching this as a Troop disciplinary issue, or even some sort of health and safety concern, versus viewing it through a YP lens.

Unless the OP informed the Committee (or others in the Troop) of the YP Report, the Committee may be completely in the dark about what has been filed at the council or national.

The scoutmaster would not have brought it to the committee since he was the issue. I called the CC to inform her of what the scoutmaster was doing so the CC could try and fix the situation. The CC did not the camp masters and camp staff stepped in and corrected the SM.   Then the CC with out the Organization Representative/Exectutive held a meeting with select parents and committee who were not involved to vote on the situation with only the SM/ASM story. Not how its supposed to be done as per National. Conclusion they retaliated against me and booted me out of the committee and blocked me from the web page and Troop FB page with no notice and backdated my membership to the date of the incident not the date of their vote.  All wrong. 

2 hours ago, MikeS72 said:

Just a few questions to help clarify things:

1.  Were any of the other Scouts in the troop willing to step up and confirm what your sons told you happened, or did they all remain silent?

2.  You stated earlier that the SM has been reported for similar behaviors multiple times.  Did any of these incidents involve other Scouts in the troop, or were they all directed toward your son?  Was there a pattern of conflict between them?

3.  You also mentioned that the troop t-shirts were sold in a variety of colors.  Was this event one in which each Scout wore the color they liked best, or was it one where they were all asked to wear the same color (if indeed they all have the same color)?

4.  Was anything worked out during the event to allow your son to participate or was he in fact excluded?

Regardless of the answers to these questions it appears as though things are pretty toxic for you and your son in this troop, and I would recommend looking elsewhere.

To answer your questions : 

1.  They did not question any scouts mentioned in the report since the CC & CE do not get access to the report filed with council. And they CC nor the DE spoke to my children. 

2. The incidents reported involved another child for the first offense and he had a talk to by the CC and DE 5 months ago and he was to be monitored. Second was against my son who is SPL . 3. was to my 12 year old. 

3. The only event where they prefer they all match is Woodruff. At all other events they wear whatever is clean. At this particular event my son had on a non troop shirt in purple one day and had no issues. It wasn’t until he put on the pink troop shirt that the issue arose. 

4. After 45 min of being bullied and told to conform or “why can’t you be normal?” The issue was resolved when the campmaster another adult came on the scene. Followed by a staff member and my son who was staff at that time. All informed SM & ASM of YPT and uniform protocols. Then my youngest was told he could participate and did not have to change shirts. 

No they have retaliated and removed me from my position without notification and back dated the end date to that of the day the incident took place. I am about to call national and report it. But yes, it is a toxic group of people . It pains me since I have put so much time and effort into the troop and kids for many many years. 

Well I am in shock. The CC retaliated and without informing me removed me from being secretary of the troop. These folks are disgusting. 

4 hours ago, elitts said:

I just want to make it clear that I never said, nor do I think, that the behavior the OP has described is acceptable.  If I were the CC or COR and I became aware of an incident like this it would take an other-wise sterling record, a completely repentant attitude and some serious consideration before I considered anything besides booting the SM from his/her position if not the troop.  I just

 

Bullying is certainly reportable, all I said is that not all instances of someone being mean is "bullying", regardless of whether or not there is a power imbalance.

 

It really depends on what "behaved poorly towards him" actually means.  Just didn't want to hang out with him?  Told him to go away?  Started calling him names?  I have to think, given the topic, if the kids had actually been openly hostile, the OP would have mentioned it.  Expecting kids to maintain an emotional calm at all times in order to be perfectly kind is ridiculous.  If there was some kind of big blow up between some kids on a camp-out, I'm not going to bat an eye if the groups involved want to avoid each other for an hour or two until their feelings settle down.  Of course if it goes on for an extended period of time or if one side or the other starts trying to entice others to ostracize people, it's a different story.

Well, I started my post when there were only about 4 comments.  There's been a whole lot of additional information OP has tacked on since then that makes the situation look like the SM is a significant problem with a history of abusive behavior over the pink shirt thing.  But I still think it's reasonable for the core Committee to ask the OP and maybe scout to come in discuss the situation.  (though not with a large group of parents and maybe not with the SM)  But to be clear, it should be to discuss the incident, not the report to the Council.

As far as the whole "repeated behavior" thing, well that one is trickier.  In this case, if the SM has been reported 3 times (I'm going to assume by different people and not OP) for harassing people wearing pink, I think it starts to be pretty clear the guy has a homophobic issue with the color pink and he's bullying anyone that violates his standards of masculinity.  But I'm always going to be hesitant about claims of bullying for single incidents happening to different people unless there's a clear unifying factor (as in this case) or a significant pattern of recurrence.

 

Unfortunately the CC did not act as they should have and the DE said it was investigating the situation. The DE later was hostile and refused and sided with the actions of the CC in them holding this meeting with the parents and SM. I called national and they told me the CC and DE were in the wrong and that I was correct in not giving the CC any information since it involved a minor. It is confidential information. There was more than enough evidence from those at camp, voice messages, texts and photos of the incident. The real issue is that 2 grown men do not have the right nor authority to intimidate, exclude him from his group, humiliate, embarrass, say “why can’t you be normal?”…  and bringing him to tears. That is not acceptable and apparently here in Central FL its OK to behave that way. Only makes. me ill. 

8 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

@Cecille25

To be clear

• Your son was at the camporee with his troop
• He was wearing a troop shirt that was pink
• This troop shirt is from the same troop he (your son) is a member of at this time
• The SM and ASM for the troop (your son's troop) harassed him for wearing a pink troop shirt
• The adults involved are the SM and ASM for the troop that produced the pink shirt
• Everyone involved is in the same troop (your son's troop)

correct. The SM just was against the pink troop shirt. Same color used by the old SM. Just the new SM is anti pink. The only time they try to all match is when they go to Woodruff and they wear a neon yellow. But that is not always the rule. 

1 hour ago, MikeS72 said:

I would highly recommend using beascout.org to find a new troop in your area.

Curious as to who may have said "he is not listening to anything" when it comes to an adult treating a child like this.  (no names please)   Was it the Council Scout Executive or your local District Executive?  If it was the District Executive I would check the council website and look at the contact information for council staff and escalate.  I would be concerned about adults who feel that is appropriate behavior continuing to work with children.

I can also assure you that your son was not the only one wearing a pink shirt at that event, I saw quite a few Scouts from other units in various shades of pink.  It is obviously a shirt that was obtained from the troop, so any color that they made available should have been acceptable to the SM/ASM.  This evidently upset your son enough to cause him to seek assistance in the health lodge.  If an adult upset my Scout to that extent we would have made the decision to leave that unit without hesitation.

Yes. After today my son’s have decided to go to another troop. Its sad. My son has been SPL for 6 elections and no one has wanted the responsibility. To answer your question it was both the Scout Executive and District Executive that gave us the brush off. 

12 minutes ago, yknot said:

I don't understand why you are considering attending this as described. The process you are outlining seems highly inappropriate. I would stipulate what you and your scouts need the process to be in order to be comfortable with confidentiality and possible exposure to yet more bullying or berating behavior on the part of the SM/ASM. There is no need for all troop members to be present, nor for your scouts to have to confront the SM who bullied them. If those changes can't accommodated by tonight, then say it needs to be postponed. I would feel free to request whoever else you want in the room and for what portions. I would only do this though if you are committed to remaining in that troop. I think the advice elsewhere to leave was good.  

Oh, I am not attending the meeting. It is just a witch hunt. I contacted the national help line and they said that the incident information is confidential since it concerns a youth. What she is doing is wrong and to contact my local Executive. We did and he gave us the brush off and said he’s not listening to anything nor acknowledging our emails. We went above him and he refused to speak to us. So I now emailed the help line with help on the matter. Unfortunately I think it will come down to us leaving a this corrupt troop. It is just sooo frustrating that if an organization has in place measures to prevent and report such matters it should take it seriously and not brush it off. That bad behavior is celebrated and they have no regard for the kid. 

2 minutes ago, malraux said:

I would shop for a new troop, if that's at all an option. Its not the perfect option, but a SM and CC backing said SM regarding bullying is something to get away from regardless of what happens to the SM within scouting.

 

It looks to be a troop issued shirt if I understand the situation correctly. Which makes it all the worse for the SM's opinion.

Correct its a troop shirt. Just pink. They have the same shirt in blue, navy, purple, white, yellow, green…. all colors. 

2 minutes ago, skeptic said:

Definitely a YP issue as discussed.  IF the tale is accurate, it appears some individual has a problem with the color pink worn by a male.  And that is very biased, or worse; IMHO.  One way of course would be to ask the whole troop to wear a pink shirt; but not sure that would do anything but annoy someone.  Still, it might help the young lad too, especially if the other troop members show their support somehow.

Years ago, we had an 11 year old that was always in sine conflict with other youth, both at scouts and with peers in school and neighborhood.  He had a really difficult time as he was very small and had two sisters that drove him crazy at home and he was the one in trouble.  Also a domineering father.  Anyway, he had ridden his bike to the meeting and got into it again and chose to go home.  It was not dark, and his parents allowed him to ride, so I told him okay, but we would check to see he got home okay.

We have a large hall in the church that we used for games, and we were up there near the meeting end.  Here comes the boy with his bike, covered with egg and dirt.  He had been jumped in the school yard next door; not hurt physically, just made a mess of.  Well, the rest of the troop had to be restrained from running to the school to find those responsible, because he was part of the troop.  That was a turning point for him.  While he never bade it past FC, he stayed involved into JC.  He is now a father with a GS and Cub and retired from the Army.  Scouting works.

 

 

My son had a purple shirt the day prior with not problem. The following morning he put on the pink shirt. That caused the SM to become irrational and a bully teamed up by the ASM who mocked my son in his responses.  I just don’t know how far up the line I have to go and who will protect me from the “trial” they are wanting to hold tonight exposing my children to the entire committee and parents. A YPT report is supposed to be confidential. 

6 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

Bullying-What_is_Bullying.pdf (scouting.org)

Reporting_Bullying.pdf (scouting.org)

Myths About Bullying (scouting.org)

This is how BSA defines bullying and how to report it.  

• An Imbalance of Power: --> yes, if it was from an adult, there is a clear imbalance of power
• Repetition --> Not clear.  It sounds like it may be repeated.  To me, that is the big difference between bullying and just someone being a bit of a jerk.

Given what you said, it probably warrants reporting to SE for an investigation to get the full story .. especially if this SM/ASM has been reported in the past by other scouts.  

It is hard to give much other guidance as it really does require someone talking to all involved.  

Yes you are correct. This has been repeated behavior. I’m just confused as to what to do next. First offense was reported to chairperson and Executive. They decided to give a warning. Second offense was reported via hotline and they were told that he was scared of retaliation by SM at the coming campout. Third offense was reported to national and they sent report to district council who has NOT given information to the committee chair.  Even in the new Ethics training for the new Citizenship in Society they tell you that any sort of bullying will not be tolerated and should be reported.  But will it go anywhere.  Do the scouts and parents actually have protections? 

This is not the first time he has been reported because of his actions. 

The shirt has the same logo as all the other shirts. The scouts wear all versions of the shirt and they at times just wear BSA t-shirts. As per YPT you are never to intimidate, isolate, humiliate a scout. The scoutmaster and assistant both did this to a 12 year old over the color pink. YPT handbook wants you to report bad behavior.  But the report is also to be confidential. The committee does not have a copy of the report but tried to tell me that I needed to send them a copy of it as per council. But council told me they have no knowledge of sharing the information nor speaking to her. My son is SPL and at the incident corrected the scoutmaster on YPT rules on uniform while being accompanied by a Camp master.   No matter what an adult has no right in any circumstance  to speak to a child in that way, and use his power to intimidate and frighten. 

The scout masters wanted to prohibit my child from participating at the camporee events and were going to force him to sit at the camp site all day. They told him”why can’t you be normal” and their behavior caused other scouts to behave poorly towards him.  For 45 min this man humiliated him in front of the other boys. He’s a 12 year old kid.   The prior incident this person got into the face of the SPL and was forcing the issue as to not wear a pink shirt. Tonight they want to essentially put me on trial as if I did something wrong.  

That’s how it should be. just a fun thing. Pink socks rock!

I am at a loss for words. Last Saturday at a 100 year Centennial Camporee my son was bullied by two scoutmasters. He was told that he could not wear his class b shirt because it was pink. They went as far at telling him he would not be allowed to participate if he didn’t change his shirt. This lead to him calling me from camp upset and crying (12 years old). I called the camp authorities and my oldest son who was staff at the event to go and correct this matter. They did and I was to file a report and did so via the online YPT infraction portal. I also sent photos of who spoke to the scoutmaster. Mind you the “PINK” class b was a color our past scoutmaster wore and the kids liked it so much they had me order them one just like it.  A class B is as per the handbook “a t-shirt and shorts (BSA) or any attire appropriate for an activity”.  Now here is my concern. Local council called me yesterday stating that they are conducting an investigation and asked questions. Later I get an email from my committee chair wanting me to give her a copy of the report I gave council in confidentiality. As far as I am aware it is only shared with the scout executive and YPT membership specialists.

Now this committee member is wanting to hold a meeting of all members and volunteers to discuss the YPT infraction. More or less putting me on trial in front of the scoutmasters who were reported. On top of that the Council executive has brushed the incident off and wiped his hands of this.  Note this was not the first time the soutmaster has been officially reported for YPT infractions. Other report was for intimidation of a scout also about the pink shirt. Prior to all the official reporting I raised my concerns with the District Executive and committee chair 5 months ago concerning bullying and humiliation of a scout at a camp out. 

I need to know what my rights are. All documentations states that if there is any infraction its to be reported. As a parent I am there to protect my children.  These people might just want to kick my boys out of the troop for them reporting abuse. Is that even leagal?What can I do?  I will post a photo of the shirt in question.  I will also post a pic with our old scoutmaster wearing the same shirt. Any advice would be appreciated.  

**the boys in the troop have the shirt with the big 58 in many colors.