ramanous

Is a program better of to stick with the BSA program (as trained), or change the program to keep youth interested?

I realize this is a bit of an open-ended question.  A general example is that National provides training and guidance that tells us the troop should follow certain procedures. When some of the youth in the troop don't want to do those things, they will complain often to parents who then give the SM an earful. In some cases, youth quit because the troop and patrol expects them to meet certain obligations and be responsible. Recently had a parent pull the kid out of the troop because the parent didn't think their boy should be responsible for helping maintain patrol gear. SM didn't bend on this one, but in other cases has. Some of these parents are influential in the CO, so the SM is put into a difficult political situation.

Part of me thinks that if a youth doesn't want to do scout things, then he shouldn't be in the program. Once we start modifying the program to accommodate, then the program and the scouts suffer. 

On 4/22/2022 at 8:13 PM, MattR said:

 It takes a rare leader that can create good teamwork from bad.

All good points being made. This certainly depends on your patrol/troop culture and condition. Leadership Development is both an Aim & a Method of Scouting, and leadership skills can be learned just as any other skill. The Patrol Method provides the structure to do so, and the other methods the opportunity.

Certainly a mature patrol can get away with less planning and delegation. Younger scouts, however, don't know where to start and look to the older scouts for guidance. The older patrols aren't providing the guidance, because they are mature/experience enough not to need the formality. This, I think, was the key failure of the Leadership Corp concept.

Thank you. "Twiddling thumbs" was more of a catch-all phrase. In my observation, the scouts tend to congregate in the kitchen while cooking then disperse when it comes time to clean-up saying they helped cooked so someone else should do the clean-up (who tend to be younger scouts that then stop coming to outings.) A duty roster is absolutely the traditional way a patrol leader should manage this, but the duty rosters I've seen seem outdated.

When implementing the scouting methods, certainly there is a balance between youth-led & adult-mentoring.  Its great if your older scouts are properly trained and self-directed, but when they are not an adult leader needs to be able to provide some guidance: here's a relevant duty roster, how and why you use it (or something along those lines depending on the circumstances)

Whats your patrol Duty Roster look like?

Fireman was a coveted role back in the day, but national now tells us not to start unnecessary campfires. The standard duty roster still features fireman, waterman which now appear to unnecessary. Our boys certainly don't bother with it. That leaves cook, clean-up and a lot of twiddling thumbs. 

Thank you. Like most things involving people, I think its complicated situation so its hard to put your finger on one thing. To be clear, I don't think there's anything nefarious going on.

I was not in cubs as a youth or adult, nor was my kid, though other frustrated parents were. I once thought that was maybe were some of the issue was, to be honest (I didn't "do my time" in the den).

I've been involved with the troop near three years, fully trained, present at the troop events. I'm aware of how a troop is supposed to be organized and run, including systems like JTE. I was also a scout, in a well-run, boy led troop. Eagle, served various leadership positions as a youth including the equivalent of NYLT. Was a MB counselor for several years after I aged out. But I wasn't involved with scouting for a couple decades, until my boy was old enough to join. I get youth led, and happily sit in the back of the room / camp site letting the scouts be scouts while sipping hot coffee.

I thought it was just me, but a few weeks ago one of the newer (but partially trained) parents "dropped a hint" to me about "things that needed to be addressed", as if he thought I had some inside influence; I'm in the dark as much as he is. (The training maybe highlighting some issues we need to deal with.) Come to find-out, a number of the parents are feeling frustrated. We want to help, but keep getting shut down or redirected (go do this other thing, that we'll ignore.) The only thing I could advise was to come to the TLC meetings.

I think #5 & #6 hits the mark though, but we're on the other side of the coin (or at least I am.)  I get exactly what you're saying. Our troop is rebuilding, post covid. Our troop is young and needs some guidance. "Lord of the Flies" is not my idea of scouting.

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I spent 5 years with one troop, helping to build it up, to the point where the adults could sit back and supervise with out intervening....When my boys and I left, and I almost took 1/2 the troop with me. 

You clearly state you helped build the troop as a parent. That tells me we're not being unreasonable in expecting to be involved. That's mainly what I wanted to know before we press the issue with the TLC.

Once a parent has been through training (not just ypt), what is a reasonable way to involve these parents in the troop?

The reason I ask is that the current "senior" Scouters in the troop seem hostile towards having parents involved in the troop regardless of their experience or training. At the same time, I hear complaints about adults not wanting to step up as volunteers (which isn't true.) Most of us have scouting experience and/or training so we are aware of scouting methods and the concept of being youth-lead.