IHC

I would like to thank y'all foreigners for discussing the mechanics of making these mixed gender potentialities work. It will benefit those who have to deal with the program changes--probably better than what BSA will come up with.

You shouldn't make any program changes. Do what you do, and if the girls like it, fine. Don't become something you're not because someone in head office tells you to.

Snort! <spewing coffee across the room>

 

Plans? We don't need no stinkin' plans! Case in point. Last night we were informed that we needed to use the new software system for uploading advancement info to the council. But the new system does not work while the old system does. Q: Why should we use the new system if it doesn't work? A: Because we need to get everyone onto the new system. Q: But it doesn't work. A: It does so much more than the old system.

 

Slap head repeatedly because it feels so good when it stops. Back to our regularly scheduled program...

 

let's talk about differences between how boys and girls do things. I've heard several UK scouters say boys and girls solve problems differently. The boys are more adept at making it up at the last moment and the girls tend to think, or likely talk, things through. If the girls are better at planning and organization, do they also tend to take leadership positions more often than the boys? One of scouting's greatest strengths is giving kids an opportunity to lead. I'd hate to see the boys get less opportunity for that. Granted, there are plenty of other issues preventing this in the BSA (mainly related to the lack of a plan from national).

 

Some questions:

 

What percentage of your scout leaders were scouts? Reading posts here, my impression you have a higher percentage than we.

 

Do you have "Family Camping" in your program?

 

Modest Proposal: Maybe we should relocate BSA HQ to Britain for this transition.

In my group, one male was a Scout, two were Cubs and one assistant leader was a Queen's Guide (so equivalent of Eagle Scout for the Girl Guides).  The other three, all female, came into it as parents, but stayed.

My group doesn't do family camping. Perhaps we should, to bring more adults in. It's hard enough to find weekends when all the leaders are free, let alone getting parents involved too. This year we didn't even have a whole-group camp, because we couldn't get enough leaders together all at the same time.

A sensible person might imagine that the BSA had consulted with other international groups before making these plans. I'll leave it to you to indicate how realistic that is.

My group in the UK isn't part of the Scout Association (the one you've heard of), we're in the Baden-Powell Scout Association. Some of you may recognise the initials BPSA. Our program is here: https://www.traditionalscouting.co.ukWithin the last five years we were in the Scout Association, so I've seen it from two sides. Both associations are co-ed.

We've had female leaders since BP was around, so no change there. I work mainly with the Wolf Cubs (8-11). In a Pack of 24, we have 4 girls. I spread them round the Sixes. With girls of that kind of age you can get friendship issues, particularly if there are odd numbers. So, A, B and C go on camp as best friends. Within one night B loves C and doesn't want to talk to A, who is left out. A then talks to C and they exclude B. Then Akela gives them a serious talking-to and they get along OK until the end of Camp. Disagreements in the boys usually begin and end with a bit of pushing and shoving, which is easy to pick up on and easy to stop. Having girls around means you have to be tuned in to emotion. Believe me, it's a valuable life skill!

The boys' tents are regarded as somewhere to sleep and dump dirty clothes (we also use Icelandics, so it's 6-8 per tent). The girls tent is neat, tidy, often with coloured bunting and full of soft toys. They really are that stereotypical. We separate by gender for sleeping, but on Camp tend not to use the Sixes we have for normal meetings, to get even groups. I don't know how things work in US early schools, but here it is unusual for schools for children younger than 11 to have changing rooms. So, all our kids are used to stripping down to their underwear, in their classroom, in front of their friends, before and after PE classes. ?None of our parents cares if their children sleep in mixed tents, and we've asked them all.

We have a thriving Girl Guide unit in our area. We have lost one girl to them in the last three years because our program didn't have enough cooking. We then gained her sister from Brownies because she wanted to do the outdoorsy stuff. We have made no compromises to the program, as far as I can see. We do what we do, and you're welcome to join in. We recruit different kinds of people, and the desires of the parents for gender isolation don't go far when they come up against a boy or girl who doesn't want to be in the group.

Safeguarding is safeguarding, regardless of the age or gender of the child. People who are concerned about how they'll respond to the company of a 12-year-old girl need to go away and give their heads a wobble.

I guess if you want a male-only environment, then your options are limited and becoming more so. Even our rugby club has a ladies' team now. As an ex-infanteer, I was happy to go to our local mother and baby group when I gave up my job to look after our kids, because my wife was earning more than I was. It takes a Real Man to wear pink.

Part of our role as Scouting leaders is to prepare our young people for the world they will be growing up in, not the one we might like them to grow up in. I don't teach Cubs how to build a bridge across a stream with poles and rope because one day they might have to do that, but because one day they will definitely need to work as a team with people who have different skill sets than they do, or no skills at all. By the time they're 11 our lot will have been introduced to map reading and navigation, shooting, first aid, how to look after and repair their clothes, how to grow plants for food and the importance of keeping fit. Thankfully we also have a female leader who can teach them the creative stuff that I'm rubbish at, so they get a rounded program. We tend to leave the stuff they do in school, at school.

From the outside the BSA plan looks destined to fail. You are unlikely to have enough girls join all together for you to be able to set up separate groups. Those who try will run it for a couple of years then give up, unless they're particularly persistent. These groups will then either close or integrate with the boys. Then your real discussions will start.