bmchugh

As this topic in now three pages long, some of the recent posters may not have read the initial concern of mine. The Woodbadge course was NOT advertised as following a particilar 'religious' practice on the overnight camping situation. I was told after spending three days at Woodbadge that I could not sleep at the same campsite with other campers because of MY sex. The staff did not ask the other patrol members how they felt about it and when I asked for a confirmation on the decision from our council executive, who I assumed would give advise per BSA National policy, was told that the decision stood and I just had to go along with it. Our council professionals are ALL of a particular religious denomination and the decision was based on that.

I have asked the council to come up with a way to notify attendees ahead of time or try to put patrols together based on a commonality of 'overnight camping beliefs' to which I was told "that practice would be discriminatory". However, no one seemed to mind discriminating against me last year.

Now, that said, I have finished my ticket and am about to receive my beads, however, wish I could just start all over again in a new council, who would puts BSA first and religion second!

scoutldr,

I was fortunate enough to attend Philmont last summer and I took the Strictly for Cubmaster course. It was worth every penny! My 10 year old son and I had an experience of a lifetime. That part of the country is beautiful!! (Of course, I do live in the middle of the potato fields in Idaho!) Philmont training center was comfortable, meals provided (mostly kid friendly foods), really fun evening events, a family day on Wednesday to explore the region or just relax. We met kids and parents who have the 'scouting spark' and the positive charge you get from each other is so supportive and inspiring. (Am I gushing yet?)

I am trying to find a course to take that I will enjoy as much as I did the Cubmaster class. Was it worth it? A very definite yes. Can't wait to go back again! Especially while my son is still at an age to want to go anywhere with his old mom!

Johnsned,

The morning of our third day we had a patrol meeting to plan for the overnight camping. During that discussion, our patrol leader told me that the SPL had announced at their meeting that the women would stay in the campsite with the other female staffers and could not camp at the patrol sites. This was not 5 or 50 feet away from the patrol but clear across the camp in an open field. All of the women had been placed in different patrols. Had two of us been together, we could have possibly tented together at a closer proximity to the patrol campsites, but no one, not even a female staffer was willing to share my tent with me because it might look inappropriate to some 'other' people, to have women and mens tents set up in close proximity.

I felt that the staff and other female participants didn't trust me. If I had been a scout in his patrol, pulled out and told I had to be supervised by the 'leaders' more closely during the night... I don't know, I guess it made me feel almost ashamed of my wanting to be included and I hadn't even done or thought of doing something wrong. No one had even given me a chance to prove I was trustworthy and that I wanted nothing more than to live by the scout law to the best of my ability.

You are right johnsned, that we cannot assume we know what is right in all situations. For the other 4 female participants, they were more comfortable being separated from the patrols, and they were supported in their decision. But I wanted to be a part of the group, around the campfire, stoking the coals and not being led off to another part of the camp like a punished child. Why were they not able to support my decision to stay with my patrol? BTW, my patrol members were all in favor of having me camp in my tent at the campsite, so it wasn't because any of them were uncomfortable with the idea.

RobK,

My concern about our council letting activities be influenced by the LDS church is not because they don't include Sunday camping. We can camp on Sundays as a unit anytime we want.

The LDS church does not allow cub age boys and families to camp together within the cub 'program'. So, when I asked the council planners to allow my non-LDS Webelos and parents to be able to camp overnight at the Jamboree, we were told it would not be possible because it isn't appropriate for that to happen at scouting events in our area.

I do encourage pack camping in my unit as well as Webelos overnighters and when I tried to find out about taking a BALOO class in our council, it has never even been offered yet, as only a limited number of units would even need this training. Does that mean our council should not offer BALOO? I think they should because my unit and others like it within our council, deserve to have access to BSA national programs despite our 'minority' status.

Beth

I am interested in providing a Tiger Cub activity within our district and have seen references to a Tiger Safari on several Scouting Web sites. I would like to hear from anyone who has been involved in planning one about what activities, games, crafts, etc. were offered, whether it was during the day or an overnight and when it was held during the tiger year (Sept. - May). Thanks!

I live in a council where the CE and DE's are all LDS and the majority of our scouting population is also. However, there are units in each district that are not sponsored by the LDS church. Unfortunately, almost all council and district activities are planned with the church's views of scouting in mind (Thursday, Friday, Saturday Woodbadge; Friday, Saturday Jamboree, etc.) Our council is planning a jamboree this spring and will not provide tent camping facilities for my Webelos group (with their parents) because the LDS packs do not do overnighter experiences until the boys are in boy scouting. Sometimes I wish they would be more accomodating of the packs who are within their council bounderies and are just trying to follow the BSA program (that happens to differ in some respects to the LDS scouting program).

I am considering attending a course at Philmont this summer and am wondering about the 'Council and District Activities' course. I am involved in planning district cub activities and wondered if there is enough information in the course on just cub activities vs. all three scouting areas (cubs, scouts and venturing). Anyone who has attended this course in years past, I would appreciate hearing about the course content and your overall impression. Thanks!

I disagree with you johnsned and this is why: Woodbadge in my opinion was a week of effort on each participants part to form a connection or 'patrol' out of basic strangers. Part of our learning there was to experience how scout patrols can use activities to strengthen the patrol (through competitive activities, etc.) and then we played a game that took that relationship and challenged it with individual vs. patrol vs. troop's best interest. ("WAYC"). That night was either a building experience or one that could rock the foundation of the patrol depending on how the patrol members supported each other and the troop. Bonding and strengthening of the patrol was the primary foundation of what I think Woodbadge was about and we learned how as leaders to help our scouts go through those processes with support and caring from adults.

To be then 'excluded' from a patrol activity at Woodbadge after that 'bond' had been developed through thick and thin, was an insult and has nothing to do with wanting to have a relationship outside comradery (a person who shares interests and activities in common with others) with the other patrol members, male or female.

Yes, I have been asked to start a Tiger Den Leader group at our District Roundtable starting next month. Our Council Roundtable folks said they do not have handouts as no one has ever needed them before. I was hoping to organize something not only for the Tiger Den leaders but also for the adult partners, as they are asked to host the den meeting and 'go see it' each month. Handouts would be especially helpful and I am hoping there are some ideas in the Roundtable 'Helps' that come out each year from National? I just ordered a copy from our council scout store. Anyone out there involved in leading a Tiger Breakout session, would be great to hear from...

I was wondering if you have a specific breakout session for Tiger Den Leaders at your district roundtables or if they are included in the Den Leader breakout sessions?

Yes, I too camp with my sons troop all the time and the male-female thing has never been an issue. I also took our districts Vanguard training, which was the old Scoutmaster training, two years ago and was the only female in the bunch. Again, no problem and no one made me feel awkward about it. I felt that the Wood badge staff made it very uncomfortable for me and my patrol and I am obviously still feeling the 'sting'.

If this in not a national policy at Woodbadge courses, I intend to make sure that it doesn't happen to me and other female participants in our council again. Does anyone know how I could find out if there is an official statement out there? Most of the Woodbadge staff forums are closed to anyone who is not on a staff somewhere. Is there someone at National who might be a good resource?

Thanks, Beth(This message has been edited by bmchugh)(This message has been edited by bmchugh)

I recently completed the new Wood badge course in our Council (August, 2002). One thing that bothered me was their policy about the Overnight Camping during the 2nd weekend of the course. I was told that I could not stay in my own tent at the patrol campsite because I was the only female and the other patrol members were all men. I was also told that I could not be alone with any male participant during the course, so there always had to be two men present when I was there. I was told by the course director that this was a national policy that they had discussed at their staff training and that it was to prevent people from getting involved during a Woodbadge course. They stated that in the past, "Marriages had been destroyed during a Wood badge course."

Dispite my arguement and the fact that all the Guide to Safe Scouting states is that "Male and female leaders require separate sleeping facilities", I was required to sleep in my tent, with the other female participants and staff members, at a central location away from all of the patrol campsites. I guess I feel this was probably not a national policy and am curious what other participants experienced at their courses this year? I felt I was being singled out and it did put a damper on my overall Wood badge experience.