Swordse

Very sad and tragic for this boy. Did the other boy ever actually accuse him of these deeds or was this just allegations from one boy to the SM to the Council? How can a council determine that a boy does not meet membership standards based on unproved allegations? This sounds like something that could happen unfairly to any boy.

kwc57, please read my previous post. That's great that you believe what you believe! But if you don't agree with what I say, all I can say is, tough! For more info check out:

http://www.quaker.org/fwcc/EMES/booklet.html#1

Peace

Rooster, I didn't think I was debating anything. I was trying to explain the basis of my religious beliefs because you asked. I am not trying to convince you to become Quaker, nor would I expect you to try to convert me to your beliefs. You seem convinced that you are right and I am wrong....I do not feel the need to defend my beliefs simply because you disagree.

Zahnada, I just replied to Rooster regarding some religious beliefs. I do not consider it a debate, simply an attempt at clarification of Quaker beliefs. I was raised Presbyterian but the Friends beliefs are what ring true to me. I do not consider this the 'one, true faith' as by the nature of the religion 'Friends generally believe that first-hand knowledge of God is only possible through that which is experienced, or inwardly revealed to the individual human being through the working of God's quickening Spirit.'

Rooster, this is probably not the place for a religious discussion, eh? I don't think I am mixing my metaphors...I believe there is a spark of God within everyone, and we can all listen to this Light if we choose. But if you don't think that, OK! Yes I do believe we are all God, from God, sons and daughters of God, part of the Whole; I also believe (since you seem interested):

'Friends believe that there exists element of God's spirit in every human soul. Thus all persons have inherent worth, independent of their gender, race, age, nationality, religion, and sexual orientation. Their opposition to sexism, racism, religious intolerance, warfare and the death penalty comes from this belief.

Simplicity, pacifism, and inner revelation are long standing Quaker beliefs. Their religion does not consist of accepting specific beliefs or of engaging in certain practices; it involves each person's direct experience of God.

There is a strong mystical component to Quaker belief. In the moving words of one reviewer of this essay, "In Meeting for Worship, God is there. God is probably always there, but in Meeting, I am able to slow down enough to see God. The Light becomes tangible for me, a blanket of love, a hope made living."

They do not have a specific creed; however, many of the coordinating groups have created statements of faith. The statement by the largest Quaker body, the Friends United Meeting includes the beliefs in: true religion as a personal encounter with God, rather than ritual and ceremony

individual worth before God

worship as an act of seeking

the virtues of moral purity, integrity, honesty, simplicity and humility

Christian love and goodness

concern for the suffering and unfortunate

continuing revelation through the Holy Spirit

Many do not regard the Bible as the only source of belief and conduct. They rely upon their Inner Light to resolve what they perceive as the Bible's many contradictions. They also feel free to take advantage of scientific and philosophical findings from other sources.

Individual Quakers hold diverse views concerning life after death. Few believe in the eternal punishment of individuals in a Hell.

All aspects of life are sacramental; they do not differentiate between the secular and the religious. No one day or one place or one activity is any more spiritual than any other.

Quakers have had a tradition of opposing war. They have followed the beliefs of the early Christian movement which was strongly pacifist. Early Christians even refused to bring charges against others if there was a possibility of the death penalty being exercised. Together with the Amish, Church of the Brethren, and Mennonites, they made it possible for men to be classified as conscientious objectors.'

End of Quaker 101!

Rooster, I don't want to get too out of scope on this topic, but would like to touch on a few points. I do not dismiss all religions; on the contrary I believe that most of them contain some truth. The nature of the religion I adhere most closely to encourages me to 'worship as an act of seeking'. I do not think I worship a generic god, but rather I believe we are all sons and daughters of God and thus have the Light within if we choose to listen to it. I think that 'true religion is a personal encounter with God, rather than ritual and ceremony.' (quotes from RELIGIOUS SOCIETY OF FRIENDS(QUAKERS)). Maybe the agnostic boy is looking for something external when he could be looking inward.

Rooster,

No offence intended to anyone's religion or views. Perhaps I should have stated it differently - my view of God is not limited to any religious doctrine (and the humans interpreting it). I believe that most religions contain some truths but that Truth is not limited to any religion. For many people religion is a beautiful part of their lives. But religion is also the cause of a lot of war and destruction when certain groups believe that they are the one and only true religion.

Kwc57,

I agree with you that parents have a duty to teach certain moral values such as not stealing, not lying, repsecting people, etc. This is a very high priority for me. However there is big difference between teaching these values per se, and insisting that a child become a member of a certain religious organization. I can teach the values without an organized religion. I personally believe that God or whatever you may call the Higher Power does not really care what church or religion you belong to, but is rather more interested in what is in your heart. So many religions believe that they are the one and only path to God; my God is bigger than that.

Boys (and girls) of this age are often still forming and developing their beliefs. My son has joined several youth groups from several very different churches and has explored several religions. I hope he will explore some more. We have told him he is free to develop his own beliefs. He understands my beliefs and we have many discussions, but in no way do I intend to impose my beliefs on him. Does he believe in a 'higher power'? I am certain that he does. But I think in his view, 'duty to God' means living by the Golden Rule, not being a member of a particular church or adhering to a particular doctrine. The time may come when it will be difficult for him to get a letter from his religious leader (as if there were only one).