svendzoid

So Tonight was the annual meeting and elections.......

....And I'm now on the executive board......only kidding

As you all could probably tell many many days ago, I didn't make it. While it is upsetting, I will try to follow your advice and work harder to improve my chances for next year.

Thanks again for your support, comments, and thoughts!

Yours in scouting,

Svendzoid

John,

I have nothing to hide with my scouting career.

If that makes me undesirable with the executive board then that is their loss.

Baden,

While I think everyone realizes my chances are slim to getting elected to the executive board....these post really serve as guidance on how to better position myself for trying again in the future.

While I never got my fishing merit badge.....I don't think I am baiting anyone....this is after all a forum where ideas and comments are shared between all.

I know I keep posting, but I like to reply to all of those who take time to post responses to my original question...or any issue that has morphed from that original question. I'm sorry you think this is a waste of time, as I find these posts really valuable.

Old evidence left behind after a decision is made reinforces a belief of gadflyism and advocacy.

....old evidence.....since when did scouting become a criminal investigation.....besides my name only appears on the petition, and I know that every exec board member got a copy...no secret

Get with the evidence owner and make it go from the current internet. It'll still be on places like the internet wayback machine, but only certifiable geeks like me go there.

Again is this an investigation? .....I thought it was scouting

As I said before, this thread is about the age limitation for the executive board....while it has morphed into other issues, I don't think the camp sale is relevant....I have gotten over it....but apparently some posters here haven't. I ask that you not bring up the camp sale in this thread. If you wish to discuss hiding evidence from a camp sale that happened over a year ago, please start a new thread. Thank you!

....again I am over the sale. Back before the executive board voted to sell the camp, I did post here looking for support and for people to sign a petition. However, I did not create or run the website. I have no authority to remove it from the internet, as I am not the owner or the webmaster. There is no current purpose for the website, but I'm afriad you are asking the impossible from me when you say I should take it down.

Again this sale issue was over a year ago, and I have since moved on from the camp sale.

This tread was created to answer my origanal question of whether there is an age requirement for the executive board. And I have found out that there is no age requirement printed in the rules book (#33161B).

I would appreciate if the camp issue or its website would not be brought up as I don't see how it is relevant to this thread.

Thank you(This message has been edited by svendzoid)

What web site are you refering to?

I'm not the web master of any scouting related web sites! I'm afraid you have the wrong person!

Anyway, I don't see what this has to do with my possible involvement with the executive board......besides there were many exec board members against the sale!

My thoughts exactly Neil.

I told him that I would love to help!

"Aside from the issue of you not being 21 yet.."

According to the Orientation guide for Council Officers and Executive board Members, there is no age limit, meaning that an 18+ year old can serve.

"...do you think that part of the reason that the Exec Board wants nothing to do with you, could be the campaign you have been running for over a year now to get the board to not sell certain Council Camps?"

Nope, The camp issue ended a long time ago, back in March of 2007. While I was disappointed with the outcome, I have moved on. In fact I was on a division of the Camping Committee that decided what to do With funds from the camp sale.....I think that shows that I am over the Camp sale issue.

I think there might be the perception with the board that you don't want to work WITH the board, for the Council as a whole, but in reality have your own agenda you want to push and your own ax you want to grind. You might have already burned your bridges with this board.

I don't think this is true. I have no hidden agenda or ax to grind. I really want what is best for this council, and want it to move forward just like everybody else. In fact, A board member just contacted me a few days ago asking for my help in a fundraising program he is planning....why would he ask for my help if he though I was going to halt potential?

Bob,

You would plan to disrupt and possibly postpone the election process (a meeting of the council body as a whole that only happens once a year), just to try and get yourself on the executive board? And you think this will endear you to the membership how?

No, I would not plan to disrupt or postpone the election process, I would be following the policies and procedures in our by-laws which allow for nominations to be made at the meeting, and to postpone the elections if the nomination committee wished to meet again to discuss the new nomination. Following the council by-laws should not affect my membership at all.

I was only implying that there was another way to get elected, and that is to have a chartered rep nominate me at the meeting....I don't think its unheard of. It is after all allowed by the by-laws.

However, I will not be pursuing this route. It was just a senario that could happen. And lets be realistic, it would be impossible for me to find enough Chartered reps in a week who would be willing to vote for me. My Chatered rep election story was really to show Bob that there was another way to get elected if the nomination committee didn't include me on their list of reccomended exec board members at the annual meeting. Let me make it clear that I have never had the intention of doing this. I know what lines not to cross. I agree that showing my value at the distict and council levels is the best way to get myself noticed and asked to serve on the executive board.

I really hope you will reconsider not only your actions but your motivation. If you were on the board would you vote for someone who behaved that way?

If I were on the board, I would have thrown my support behind a young individual who wants to help further the council along time ago... it would never have gotten to this point

....ohh and I went to my scout shop and they did not have the Orientation Guide for Council officers and executive board members.....I ordered it!

(This message has been edited by svendzoid)

Bob,

Okay Sven, I am gonna presume based on your last post that you did not read the resources you asked for a week ago. There is only 1 way to get on the executive board and that is to be elected by the council body.

When I said "Even though the nomination committee isn't going to nominate me, there are other ways to get nominated and voted in." I'm referring to having a chartered rep nominate me at the meeting, which I believe is allowed. The nomination committee might have to re-meet and postpone elections for another time (its all in the bylaws). So simply put, if I can get a majority of Chartered Reps to reject the slate ofnominees made by the nomination committee, then they would have to re-evaluate who they want to nominate. Perhaps a deal could be made where if I'm added to the list the Chartered reps will vote in the rest of the nominees.

A week ago you knew pretty much nothing about the structure of the council or the duties of the various levels of the council body. And in the last week without reading the information of attending any council meetings .....

Thats interesting because I have been attending Council Camping committee meetings for a year, and have helped with membership on the district level.

It is sad that in a youth oriented organization, that there are few youth who sit on the executive board.

Bob, I dont think anything could be lost by having me on an executive board, who knows it might be the best thing that happens to my council......but I guess we will never know!

Well I met with my scout executive and the nomination committee chairman. It was a 2 hour meeting, in which we talked about everything related to the executive board.

Of course, they both made it clear that they had no intentions to elect me to the exec board. There reasons varied from the age requirement, to the fact that I had no money to donate, and then that they thought I would not be able to understand the issues that the board faced.

While I disagree with their views on what makes a strong executive board, I was glad to be given the opportunity to meat with them.

Our executive board meeting and election of new members will be this Thursday, so I will see what happens then. Even though the nomination committee isn't going to nominate me, there are other ways to get nominated and voted in. I will let you all know what happens on Friday!

svendzoid, I do not want to offend you in any way or squash your enthusiasm but I suspect that if you did manage to get on the CEB that you would not be "welcomed with open arms" by the current members. Maybe I'm speaking from my own personal experience with my local council's board and the way they operate but they appear to be an "ol boys club".

That doesn't bother me, although for an organization that promotes friendly, courteous, kind... it sure is unsettling!

The first question I recieved was from one of our board members who asked "what are you doing here?"

- This seems to be the attitude that some high ranking executives and board members have towards lower level volunteers. It is, in my mind, the tradgic flaw of the BSA. As it holds back unknown potential and sure doesn't make volunteers feel welcome or appreciated.

I spent most of the rest of the meeting having to explain why I was "Qualified" to be there and the list of ideals ended up on the cutting room flooro to speak.

-So sorry to hear this......having to explain yourself as a volunteer (especially one trying to help increase money flow) is unnacceptable. If you would like to share your ideas for increase popcorn sale with me, my district and council would surly appreciate it. Doesn't it stink when you spend hours putting together proposals, only to see it be tossed aside.....it's happened to me many a time......again tragic flaw of boy scouts

As a side note, the ASE did ask that I send it to him as he thought some were pretty good.

- A sign of hope!

I have seen the "behind the scenes" politics that goes on in Scouting

- Why does there have to be politics in scouting? (rhetorical)

As I said in my opening comments please don't be offended but you may not be welcomed if you do "push" your way (if that is even possible)onto the board and worse than that the whole experience may ZAP some or all of your enthusiasm.

-I'm not offended at all! I welcome all criticism. I know many people think I'm crazy for wanting to join the executive board. However, I'm very serious about my intentions. I know people have questioned my "jumping" to this high level without "paying my dues" at lower levels.

For those interested my scouting "career" has included being a Boy Scout, becoming an Eagle Scout, being a venture crew member, working with my district on membership, recruiting venture scouts to help my district achieve quality unit, advertising for local cub packs, I also serve on the camping committee, I was on a sub committee to look into purchasing new equipment for our boy scout camp, I receive a scholarship from the council for college, myself and our district executive are currently pursuing a troop in a local Hispanic community, we have made contact and will be continuing to pursue the troop there, I'm an assistant scoutmaster for my troop andcurrently oversee the transition of the new webelo scouts to becomingboy scouts,I've also served on summer camp staff as a senior waterfront instructor.....all this before my 21st birthday......not to boast.

Im afraid many people think I randomly decided to pursue a seat on the executive board for fun, and thats not the case. Ive given it serious consideration. Some people say Im not qualified because I dont understand all the intricacies that the board faces, or that I dont understand the financial aspect of the council. And I dont think this is the case. While Im not pretending I know everything (nobody knows everything) I do review my councils IRS Form 990s so I have a pretty good indication of their financial situation. As Ive stated before, I think that for a council to have a well rounded board, it must have representation from all age groups....including the 18-21 group.

The district calendar gave the time. However the Location changes every few months, so no location was listed. (Calendar copied below.)

District Committee Meeting

Description: District Committee Meeting

Start Date/Time: 6/4/2008 7:00:00 PM

End Date/Time:6/4/2008 9:00:00 PM

Contact E-mail: *******@bsa***.org

I sent an email to the DE, He replied with no location, instead he demanded to know why I wanted to attend, and lectured me about how buisness needed to get done at these meetings. (It's funny because I used to volunteer for membership and attended district meetings untill the winter, Then the school work became so much that I had to stop going to district meetings, and this is what I get when I try to return.

He also mentioned that District Meetings were closed to people who were not on the district committee. I was under the impression that any member of the district could attend and listen in to the meeting.

I am trying to get involved on the district level...but it is proving to be harder then I thought!

It's hard when your District Executive won't tell you the location of the meeting.

But again this thread is really about the executive board issue of allowing an 18-21 to serve on the board.

I am trying to get involved on the district level...but it is proving to be harder then I thought!

Boris...Thanks for your comments. No Offense taken!

I realize the uphill....or upcliff battle I'm in. But I think it's worth it. I will of course, report on the outcome!

"Given your age (and perhaps your insistence here), I would suspect that you would not really be very happy if you actually were asked to serve on the board."

...no I think I would be happy.....

"Board work is group work; it requires an aptitude for following. . . not so much individual leadership......"

I think I can be a team player, each organization in scouting is different, so my council might "fit together" differently than yours....so I don't think prior learing is too important.

"You would not really be able to much represent the community."

Who knows....I like to think that I am involved in my community...more specifically my town....

"You seem to be under the impression that one of a councils means of obtaining revenue is from membership dues. You state that the more Scouts and Scouters a council has the more money it has from dues. This is incorrect. The entire annual registration dues of $10 goes directly to National. Individual councils receive NO MONEY AT ALL from membership dues. This is why council product sales, FOS, and corporate donations are so important."

More members normally equals more FOS donations and who knows....possibly more connections with "well off" people.

...I did work on staff at a boy scout camp...as a Senior Aquatics Instructor....I'm currently a Program Director at a Ymca Camp.

I used the camping aspect as it is really the key place where the council interacts directly with scouts. (meaning that council employees (camp staff) and their policies from the camping committee affect the scouts.)

Then, if you also know your numbers (are you a finance major in college?), you have a shot at achieving your goal on ever-broader scales.

-Well i'm not a finance major, but I am a math major.....hopefully I know a little about numbers. I will be looking to take an accounting class as an elective.

Thank you Lisabob.

I have tried to do my due diligence on this issue; I have poured over by-laws, looked over training manuals, looked up stuff on the internet, and even called the National Scout Office. It really comes down to the Council. Im sure that if my council wanted me on the Executive board at 20 years of age, they would find a way to get me on.

As for the financial aspect, my philosophy is a bit different. I believe that promoting scouting, its camps, program, and opportunities, will increase membership and increase cash flow. At the same time as getting more money from membership dues, it will expose scouting to more people (both youth and adults) and perhaps increase the number of adult volunteers.... (something money cant buy) I see it as a cycle, high membership leads to more money, more summer camp participation, more adult leaders; In turn more money helps to up-keep camp properties, and promote scouting. High summer camp participation leads to retention in youth members, then those members tell non-members about their experiences in scouting and more youth join scouting. (Our troop alone has seen youth join because there friends tell them about summer camp and the camp outs.)

While donations are important, they cannot directly buy more volunteers or more scouts. I believe a solid program (delivered at the unit level by scoutmasters) and a solid camping program for cub and boy scouts is the best tool for retaining and attracting members. Unfortunately, I think my council is lacking on the summer camping program, (but they are doing a good job trying to repair the damage.)

I realize that my views differ form other peoples, and I appreciate being able to get others points of view. Just as no two people are the same, no two councils are the same, and what works for one wont always work for the other.

John-in-KC - The best place for svendzoid to provide the youth input to his Council's Executive Board is to become Chief of his OA Lodge. Many, not all, many... councils include that young man ex officio.

The only problem is that I am a Registered Adult (Assistant Scoutmaster), and I am turning 21 in a few months.......so I think OA Lodge Advisor is out. It's weird because young men in the 18-21 age bracket can both be youth, or adults....it's a grey area.

I'm not saying that the entire board should be made up of young adults. But I see no harm in having a few young adults that are 18-21 serving on the board. If anything they will be better prepared to serve the council in years to come. Does it take 50 people with corporate and business and financial backgrounds to make good financial decisions....not really....maybe 10-15 and thats still a lot. Perhaps if Executive boards spent as much time and energy on reviewing how the program is being delivered at the unit level as they do on finances.....enrollment would increase.....more enrollment equals more money.

...too bad that councils don't. Youth could probably do more for a council then money ever could. Who knows maybe i'll win the lottery...and turn the tables...

....I hope that wasn't directed at me!

Lisa, I want to be elected to the executive board to offer a different and perhaps "new" outlook on different topics. As a younger person, I feel that I am more able to connect with youth in the scouting program, and this might be beneficial. After all it is only a matter of time until my generation is running scouting in my council. I think that for a board to be well rounded it must have representation from all age groups including scouts in the program and young adults from the 18-21 category. I think one of scouting's flaws is that there are no real opportunities for young men who are 18-21. (Except for venturing and being an assistant scoutmaster.) Many young men go to college and get disconnected from scouting, which is a shame because many of those young men just became eagle scouts and would be great role models on the unit, district, and council level.

And do you really have the spare cash to pony up, that seems to be an unwritten expectation of E Board members

- No, I have no money that I can just donate, at least not on the scale you are referring too. However, money isnt everything, and where is the money really spent...on the professionals?....does my troop get any?? And you said it yourself, its unwritten, because its not a requirement and one should not be elected for his lack of funds. Our council allows a maximum of 50 members on its executive board.....for the past few years I dont think there has been more then 47 members at a time on the board. Meaning that if I were elected I would not be taking up a seat of someone who could donate money. My council would not make or lose anything (financially) by having me on the board.

And as far as I can tell, if what you want is to make an impact on scouting on the ground in your council, there are many more direct ways to do that than being on the E Board. Work on a district or council committee, for example.

-I do serve on both a district and council committee. However, I am a non-voting member.

So I'm wondering why you set your sights on that particular position? I'm not saying you don't have a valid reason - I just am really curious what it is.

-I hope I have explained myself. Basically it comes down to having a well rounded and well represented executive board. Just because I am young, or have no major financial resources doesnt mean that I would make a bad board member. After all scouting promotes leadership qualities among youth; they should allow those skills and qualities to further serve scouts in the council.

I'm looking for the lower end for age requirments. I'm 20 and want to be nominated to the executive board, however the scout executive is saying that I must be 21. However, I have also heard 18. So I was just wondering what others thought. I have not been able to find any national scouting publishings with age requirments. Any help would be great! Thanks