SpencerCheatham

Thanks to everyone for their help. I've got years of stuff here.

I know what the law says, but given the situation you have described, the only way to save the first kid is to administer the epi-pen or get someone (EMS) there within a couple of minutes to administer epi. You are saying you would rather not break the law than save the kid? That is not really what you mean.

I am looking for short (2-3 paragraphs) stories/situation where a character has to make an ethical decision. I want to pose them to the troop to see what they would do in that situation. I have some articles from Scouting magazine, but was wondering if anyone had a good website. Tried some, but most deal with drinking/drug abuse or telling the truth or cheating on a test and I've beaten the dead horse with those.

Fred,

I am interested in what you do instead of punitive methods. The underlying cause to the example I gave is that the scouts are forgetting. Punishment helps them remember because it associates a difficult time with forgetting. If there are other, effective methods, I would be glad to hear and try them.

Thanks,

Spencer

We use push-ups for consequences. An example of when this may be a punishment is when a boy does not bring pen and paper to the meeting so that he cannot remember important information to relay to parents (yes, we email parents info, but we want the boys to be responsible for relaying it). The scoutmaster has told the scouts that they may have to do push-ups or sing teapot or something else if they do not bring these supplies. Usually they receive a warning, but repeat offenders get a punishment. The scouts now bring pen and paper extremely consistently.

I know some of you will be offended because I called it "punishment" but that is what it is. It is a consequence to a lack of meeting expectations. You knew the expectations. You chose to not meet them and now there is a consequence - punishment.

That is the way things work in the real world (or the way they should work). If I show up late to work, when I walk in the door I expect my supervisor to call me into his office and have a talk that will result in a letter in my file. If I come in late again, I expect that my supervisor will write me up. I do the same for the people I supervise.

Also, push-ups are not pain. Maybe some discomfort if you have to struggle, but pain? Come on. Arent we being just a little too easy on kids these days? To ask a 10-18 year old boy to do 10 push-ups should not be a huge deal. If the kid were really out of shape, I would lessen the amount or give him extra work or the teapot song, etc. Also, this is not Parris Island. I am not screaming at him or standing over him in a threatening manner. I am not mad at him and my actions do not show that. There is no emotion involved.

Given that the Scoutmaster Handbook specifically says to not do them, I will now find another method of punishment.(This message has been edited by SpencerCheatham)(This message has been edited by SpencerCheatham)

We absolutely missed the opportunity to counsel him when he wanted his blue cards and the advice to meet with him is gold. We need to ensure we are doing everything we can to keep the interest of those Scouts who meet his circumstances as well as the others.

Definitely understand that he should get the merit badges himself and we support that. My reference to that was in relation to his participation over the last six months.

Packsaddle,

I appreciate the advice. No issues with feeling singled out since it is I who is asking for advice. Related to being dishonest to myself in signing him off, the Scoutmasters did not feel they had a choice. He met the requirements of BSA and our troop. My frustration also centers on the fact that our troop's expectations for Scouts was low enough allow him to be signed off. Like many stated, how did he recharter for 4 years with so little participation? Why did it take us a year before he turns 18 to meet with him?

Please dont take this frustration I have as something I hold against the Scout nor something that "haunts" me. I will attend his Eagle ceremony and wish him the best in the future. My goal with putting this to everyone is to get other opinions from more experienced Scouters so that I can improve the function of my troop.

As for participation, I believe 1/3 is adequate. A third of meetings, camping nights, etc. I do not feel this is too much to ask. I also think there is leeway for the Scoutmasters to determine if there are extenuating circumstances for some scouts. If a Scout misses some of his third because of other necessary obligations, the Scoutmasters can give other assignments to make up for the lost time. For example a Scout who has to work and cannot make campouts, but makes meetings can make up for the camping nights with meetings or a service project or another worthy project.

I am still learning the rules of Scouting, but it is my understanding that the Scoutmasters can have rules for the troop such as attendance requirements, etc for recharter. Is that incorrect?(This message has been edited by SpencerCheatham)(This message has been edited by SpencerCheatham)

I appreciate Fred and other's similar perspectives regarding the fact that the young man met the requirements and should be rewarded the rank. My question is should a young man who does not place a priority on Scouting while petitioning for its highest rank, be able to achieve such an honor?

I understand that other things come up in life and that he did make Scouts a priority before coming to our troop, however it is not as if he chose to participate when it came time to get his Eagle. When it was time to achieve the remaining requirements for his rank, he chose not to participate with the troop, but to place all other activities above Scouting. He worked on the 4 merit badges in the last 6 months by himself and his service project was completed with the help of 3 Scouts who are friends in school. He attended the 2 meetings before his service project to announce (giving a total of 10 days notice) to the troop when he needed help.

Sorry it took so long to repost, but I appreciate the input from everyone. I guess the use of "hypothetical" was pretty ridiculous. Obviously this is a real situation.

There were so many questions that other posters had, but I am sure I will miss a few.

We did let this scout down in the sense that we were not in contact with him until the last year. A poor excuse, but the current adult leadership came in a little less than two years ago, so I cannot say what happened before that time.

We did not want to pass this Scout to Eagle because of our frustration with his lack of participation. Had we consulted with others, we would have known about what many posters have stated regarding not signing off and allowing him to explain his situation further up the chain. We will know in the future. When we stepped back from our personal feelings about his participation, we realized that he had met the requirements of Eagle and signed off.

I still do not think this young man should advance to Eagle. It is not a reflection of his character. He is a polite, intelligent, reverent, hard working young man who lives the Scout spirit outside of Scouting. My issue is just that. He made choices which did not make Scouts a priority. These choices meant he was not there as a role model to inspire other Scouts; not there to be a PL or SPL; not there when other Scouts needed him for their service projects; and not there to congratulate or encourage his fellow Scouts when they met or failed a challenge. Instead he chose to be more active in other extracurricular activities. There is nothing wrong with this choice, however there are consequences to choices and I feel the consequences for non-participation in scouts should be the inability to receive the prestigious rank of Eagle. The opposite demeans the rank.

I dont anticipate it ever happening, but I am also one who believes in a practical test for Eagle as well. I think every Scout who reaches Eagle should be able to prove several things in a few hours: knots, first aid, fire building, etc. Basic skills which define a Scout. It is especially difficult for me to accept that he is moving on to Eagle because this young man can accomplish few of these basic skills as demonstrated in the recent meetings he attended or admittedly in his SM conference.

Obviously we made mistakes with this young man and hopefully we will learn much from those and use that knowledge to help future scouts.

Thanks again,

Spencer

We advanced him to his Eagle BOR despite our concerns because he did meet the requirements.

Would you advance this hypothetical Scout to Eagle?

A Life Scout joins a troop 4 years ago. As a Life scout with his previous troop he completed all of the necessary Eagle rank requirements except for 4 merit badges and his service project. Over the 4 years since joining the troop, he earned the merit badges and completed the service project. Over the 4 years he never once did any of the following activities with the new troop: camping, scout camp, day trips, service projects including Eagle projects other than his own. Additionally, he attended less than 30% of the troop's meetings in those 4 years. As a final chance to make up for his lack of participation, his scoutmasters met with him several times in the year before his 18th birthday and asked that he put together one weekend camping trip and one day trip. A month before his 18th birthday, he tells the scoutmasters that he cannot meet those expectations because of work, Prom, school play and chorus.

Should he advance to Eagle?

Gotta agree with Poppadaddy and add that you would also be in the heart of where the War of Northern Agression (uhm, sorry, the Civil War) took place. With the 150th anniversary ceremonies, they have some great programs going on now. Throw in Mount Vernon, Monticello, etc. and you would see a great deal of American history.

I did a search and came up the newest thread over two years old. It stated that paintball was under review. Has anything changed? It is a great game with less danger than so much of what we can do.

I feel bad because my son and I play. I take some of the scouts (as friends of my son), but dont want to break the rules and make it a scout trip because of the perception that will give.