Source

The SM was NOT disapproving the project, the project itself was fine, he told the boy he would not sign off on the project until he started getting more active in the troop again and start attending meetings.

SO, the SM refused to sign ANYTHING until the boy became more active in the troop again. The boy did not have time to change anything or fight anything. At the time he only had weeks until his 18th bday.

OOPS I mean he did his Eagle Project anyway without the SM signature. The Scout went ahead with is project after getting guidance from the Council who told the boy to go ahead with his project with out SM approval. The SM refused to sigh before and after the project. Also SM and CC refused to sign application.

I am sure glad it came out this way and it didnt let a boy fall thru the cracks. It is a good sign for a boy I know who is in the same boat right now. He has completed everything for EAGLE and his Eagle application was turned in just days before he turned 18 BUT,

The Scoutmaster Refused to give approval for the boys Eagle Project, which the boy completed with SM signature

The Scoutmaster gave a Scoutmaster conference BUT it was so the Scoutmaster could tell the boy what he needs to change

The Scoutmaster refused to sign off for being active in the troop

The Scoutmaster refused to sign the Eagle application

The CC also refused to sign the boys Eagle application stating he is backing his SM.

The boys is just hoping his application will be approved since he has now turned 18 and he still needs an EBOR and a long appeal process may not be good.

Beavah, I know how it works, I have been active in scouts for 38 years starting as a cub. I have started packs and troops, ive been committee member and ASM and many other positions, but when BSA says one thing and the SM says well thats not how I am going to do it, is that really how you think it is supposed to be ? The SM really gets to make his own rules even if they directly contradict BSA RULES? Im not talking about judgment calls, im talking about rules in black and white.

I guess none of this really matters since some Scout Masters are still making their own rules.(This message has been edited by source)

I am not the youth or the parent, in fact we are not even in that troop anymore, my son and I left that troop for other reasons. We just stay in contact with some of the people the troop still.

Its sad when a Scout and his parents are being forced to appeal to the Council because the SM, troop, and district refuse to accept the new definition of ACTIVE, even when it says (Units may not create their own definition of active; this is a national standard.) and the SM is still makes his own rules.

We are not talking about POR, his POR has been done LONG ago, he has been a life Scout for several years, infact he has gone well above and beyond until the last year or so, all he had left where a couple merit badges and his project. He is now done EVERYTHING, BUT it seems the BE ACTIVE IN YOUR TROOP is biting him on the rear now.(This message has been edited by source)

SO by this new definition if a Life Scout is going to school full time and working 30 hours a week and can not make the meetings or most activities, if he stays in contact with the Unit Leader, then the SM can NOT turn him down for Eagle for not being active in his troop ? Correct ?

Well END OF STORY ....

SM and a ASM talked to both boys involved then talked to the Adult that was accused. He he admitted to going to far and not stopping when one of the boys asked him to stop. He says it was not sexual but he should of stopped.

The ASM and SM went to the CC with all the information. The CC let the Chartering Organization know what happened and the accused adult leader was asked to leave the troop and he did without question.

The CC did contact the parents of the boys to make sure the stories he heard where correct since he heard them 2nd or 3rd hand. He also apologized to the parents and let them know the accused adult will no longer be in the troop.

The SM stepped and did his job the way it should be done and system that BSA has in place seems to have worked properly in this case.

My son is 12 right now and is very capable of getting his EAGLE before he turns 13. He has done all the work on every requirement for every MB and RANK.

BUT has a EAGLE myself and a ASM, ive already told by son he WILL NOT be an EAGLE before he is 14. I told him he will need to have more leadership responsibility and skills, before I allow him to become and EAGLE. He will have enough MBs to get thru his first 2 palms when he makes EAGLE, but I want to make sure he has the leadership also to become a GOOD EAGLE.

Thank you very much for all your answers and statements.

I have found out that this is not the first issue with this adult leader and the Committee Chairman has another complaint about him and he will be asked to leave the troop.

OK let me ask this. Would any of you consider another adult hitting or pinching your sons butt or thighs on a campout inappropriate or sexual ?

I am the parent of one of the boys and a ASM in the troop. By any parent especially the parents whos Scouts where involved, the touching was inappropriate. It was not in a sexual manner BUT was in areas that any parent would consider inappropriate areas for adults to be touching a child on a Scout event.

I can a sure you it is not a witch hunt. It is really more a new troop and learning issues and growing pains and knowing the right course of action. It may seem as a witch hunt sometimes because I am the only one in our troop that will actually speak up about issues, weather they are mine or someone else who came to me and is scared to say anything. I have 35 years experience as a Scouter, but many of the last years have been CUBS and Webelos and just the last couple years back in Boy Scouts. MANY things have changed since I was a Scout and a ASM back in the 70's and 80's Things are not handle the same now as they once where, and I dont want to over step my boundaries, I just want to make sure I am doing the right thing and the SM and other ASMs are doing the right thing with the boys in mind.

Well the SM issue has been fixed. We have had a talk with him and he has agreed he has made some bad choices and will work with his ASMs more from now on and would be willing to possible have CO-SM or even allow someone else to take the SM possition if need be.

SO it seems simple communication with the SM has worked in that issue, and consideing this new issue with 2 Scouts and a ASM has come up he has worked with parents and ASM to try and come up with the appropriate course of action.

The allegation are not against our SM infact the SM has been VERY helpful in this issue, and the ASM they are against has admitted to going to far and continuing even after a SCOUT told him to stop.

Because this is a large forum and a very good and popular form for Scouters I do not want to give any real details BUT please try and understand and help here.

What is the proper procedure according to BSA when an adult leader has touched boys that is considered inappropriate touching ? It is not something that is purely a sexual touching. It is something that a dad might do to his own son when picking on eachother, BUT it is something a parent would think is inappropriate for an adult to do to a boy that is not his own. It would be something like pinching a boy in the butt.

First just to be sure I am not over thinking, would you other adults consider it inappropriate touching if another adult did something like pinched your son in the butt while on a Scout campout ?

Buffalo, you are right. We actually had about 25-30 boys registered last year, but we only have about a dozen at meetings and even fewer at campouts now. ZERO High Adventure. The troop was started just a few years ago with a few boys and grew to about 30 in a short time and now seems to be dropping of. The troop does no recruiting other than word of mouth.

We do have a Committee but they don't do anything.

BUT, I will admit. I have stepped up again and I am trying to voice my ideas and the other ASM's are also and the SM is actually starting to listen a little more to us and the boys. He has actually set real patrols and lets the PLs and APLs run their patrols. I hope it isnt too late since last year we where haveing meetings with 25 boys or more a meeting and now we are lucky to get 10 or 12. BUT we do have alot of adult leaders. we have 8 - 10 leaders at every meeting and a min. of 5 or 6 at every campout.

Beavah, Where were the patrol leaders ??? LOL now thats funny in our troop. Patrol leaders dont make decision or run the patrols in our troop. Thats the SMs job.

OK here is one example. Before winter camp the ASMs where planning the winter camp campout. Everything was going well because the SM was out for a meeting. When the SM came to the next meeting he decided since it was so cold and the weekend of winter camp was going to be cold he would let the boys vote on if they want to go or not. So simple majority won and it was voted that we would not go to winter camp. There where plenty of adult leaders going and we has many boys who wanted to go, but since it was a simply majority vote by the boys the SM decide NOONE GOES.

This has been done on some of our regular month campouts also. We have a campout planned every month much like most Scout Troops, BUT if weather is cold or maybe rain in the forcast the SM will allow the boys to vote and if its a NO majority then the Scouts who wanted to go are left out. I believe this is due to the fact the SM really does not like to camp ESPECIALLY if it is cold or raining. Some of our campouts in the past have also been cut short because of rain or weather.

I remember when I was a Boy Scout we went camping every month rain or shine or cold and we did not pack up a day early because of bad weather.

awesome1_in_cc you are 100% correct. Infact we have had times that the SM was not arround and all the ASMs made a decision that would be best for the boys and when the SM comes along he will often over rule what was decided for one reason or another. He does not alway make the best choices for the boys or for the leaders, but like I said HE started the troop and it is HIS troop.

J

Well we have talked to the SM about several things such as him making a rank requirement for SPL and then when its time to vote on SPL making exceptions for certain boys, which you can understand makes other boys a little upset.

Anytime we have tried to talk to the SM we get the same answer. I am the SM and I make the final decision and that is my decision. If we try and talk to him then he takes it personal.

I have to admit he is NOT a bad SM in the sense he does not cause danger or worry to scouts. He does have a power issue, he is not long time scouter, but he does have 3 asst SMs that have over 30 years experience each inlcuding myself.

Basically it is a He started the troop, he is the SM, he is the ruler. I am not speaking in behalf of the other leaders as much as Im speaking for most of the boys who come to me and other leaders and complain or ask WHY ?????

I guess the best thing to do is try and talk to him again.

The Scoutmaster has made the rules in t he troop and has then actually changed the rules he has set to suite what he thinks should be done at any given time. Which I guess since he is the SM he can do that.

I will have to say nothing so far has been a danger to anyone, just minor annoyances to many. Such as, The Guide to Safe Scouting says a driver for scout outings must be 18 years old and a driver can be 16 under certain conditions. Well this trip has some boys who would like to drive even if it is only them self. Well the SM put his foot down and said in his troop noone under 21 is allowed to drive to scout events.

It is just minor issues like that bother some adults and boys

Star or above OR maybe its 1st Class or above(This message has been edited by Source)

Is there a proper way of removing a SM from his position to allow a more qualified person to take over, if the present SM has no intention on stepping down ?

The problem is I know of a SM who is running his troop as HIS TROOP not always as a BSA troop. He sometimes sets his own rules that may be different than BSA rules and his reason is, he is the SM and he makes the final rule for his troop. One example is allowing a boy who is 17 become voted in as SPL even if he does not have the proper rank, but he was allowed because he will be 18 soon and if he would of had enough time in scouting he would of been the proper rank. That is just one of the many issues in this troop.

They have many frustrated boys and adult leaders and they do not know what to do.

Thanks