RMV

I love the Scout Bucks. In actuality, if the Council is using the trails end prize package, the cost of the bucks is better for the council than the cost of the prize. You don't have to worry about a prize being back ordered or discontinued.

One we pay for up front (the prize) the other we pay for when you decide to cash in (the bucks). Most people wait till camp to cash in, so you have the money in the bank till the bucks are paid out. A win for everyone.

RMV

What makes a great district or council?

Might be better for a new thread, but I would love to know what everyones thoughts would be on this.

If we could make it great, what would it look like? What would be the first step to make something great? What can we do to make it so more volunteers wanted to be known as district and council Scouters?

I am teaching a class in the subject of expanding district volunteerism at a district committee meeting in April. Would love this groups thoughts on the subject.

RMV

Here is some logic you can use to help sell a council on this idea of unit only paying the council what they owe them when they close out popcorn. There will be fewer bounced checks from units.

Because of the fast turnaround time from getting the popcorn to having to pay the popcorn company for it, the council does have to collect fast, if the units have to collect faster, than often times they are paying before they have collected all the money for the product. The check bounces because the unit doesn't have extra money to cover what they owe in their account. I would bet if you checked with the bank, the checks don't ever bounce by a lot. I don't know all local laws about this, some councils may not have a choice as to how they do this.

We collect a post dated check for what the unit owes us, on the day the popcorn is picked up. We have an agreed upon date we will cash the check and the units know to call us if they need us to delay. This makes it so the kernals don't have to chase down money, the council gets paid very quickly, no checks have to be cut and the units can spend their money on program very quickly.

One of the areas that we are getting some complaints about is the prize package. We have been using Trails End for several years. At first it was great, now it seems that the prize quality is diminishing. Anyone else think have thoughts about this?

RMV

I think that quality of programs has a lot to do with tradition as well. If a council is used to having extremely good training or outdoor program, it is easier to recruit good people to help with those areas.

When you look at how many volunteers it really takes to run quality programs at all levels, many councils have given up and have recruited people to do two, three and sometimes even four different volunteer positions. There are some vol's that pull this off, but most get burned out and really can't make any of the positions they have agreed to help with rise to the level of being the best of the best. New people see how hard the district and council volunteers are working and don't want to be a part of the group. People flock to being a part of something that is really good.

Some people can handle some of the complicated positions in Scouting, others can't. If the ones that can't are put into those roles because they were easy to recruit, then a pretty negative tradition is started.

RMV

I think that quality of programs has a lot to do with tradition as well. If a council is used to having extremely good training or outdoor program, it is easier to recruit good people to help with those areas.

When you look at how many volunteers it really takes to run quality programs at all levels, many councils have given up and have recruited people to do two, three and sometimes even four different volunteer positions. There are some vol's that pull this off, but most get burned out and really can't make any of the positions they have agreed to help with rise to the level of being the best of the best. New people see how hard the district and council volunteers are working and don't want to be a part of the group. People flock to being a part of something that is really good.

Some people can handle some of the complicated positions in Scouting, others can't. If the ones that can't are put into those roles because they were easy to recruit, then a pretty negative tradition is started.

RMV

Never thought of myself as a firefighter, but there are times when that is a great description of how I spend my time.

Have a couple of fires burning now, no matter what I do there will be a least one volunteer that thinks I have no clue what I am doing. They may be right, but I think that all I can prove is that I looked at the situation and gave them my honest opinion. We are all Scouts here, and should treat each other as such.

This goes to something that was said in the Smoozin thread. How can we keep pro's in position for a longer period of time? Sometimes it is too long. How do we know and how do we find balance?

I've been the guy doing popcorn before. My motto was never to step over dollars to pick up nickles. Your unit would come first in my book. Don't know why they don't let you keep your commision when you pay for the popcorn, that is what we do, and would make it so that you never felt you weren't paid on time. Why do you do popcorn? To make money for your unit. At the same time, if a council has no way to pay the bills, the pressure to find a way to get vendors, the government, and the employees off of their backs is pretty great.

Gotta run. Will think on this one some more.

RMV

It was meant good! Sure is hard to write with tone, especially with my dry humour.

From my meeting with the guy from Cub Scout division, he hasn't heard anything about uniform changes. I asked some of the pro's in my office, none of us like the current shorts either.

Our discussion was on how to use the census to do direct mail recruiting. Pretty interesting stuff. For the most part, using the census and a list service company, you can send direct mail to all households within a zip code with a boy age 7-10 living at it.

As there are a few schools that won't pass out our flyers, this is one way to get around it. The only real issue with this is cost.

RMV

One of the things I ask a new District Chairman to help me with is helping teach DE's to become business men(or women). They are normally right out of school and don't have the saavy as to how to behave, dress or act in a business setting. Should we get upset with them because of it? Only if we have made sure that they know better.

I remember when I started. I graduated on a Saturday, went to work on Monday. One day I am a crazy college student, the next a respected member of the community. It took some time to grasp what kind of life I had signed up for, even though I had been in Scouting since I was 8.

The successful DE will be able to inspire volunteers to significance rather than do the work for them. Can they always do this? No?

Takes a while to get used to working with volunteers and getting things done.

We pro's have a saying. "Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, what the volunteer doesn't, the DE must."

That type of attitude is probably unhealthy in some ways, but the reality is that if we don't hold a DE's feet to the fire to achieve goals, what is the point of having them? (the goals and/or the DE's!) If they have a goal on the number of troops going to camp next summer, it is more likely that the number of troops going will be greater.

There are guys that are here in this forum that are much more capable of giving the correct answer to all questions. So what is it we expect of a DE?

I believe that enlightened volunteers pay my salary to draw a line in the sand and say, by God, make Scouting happen here.

Sometimes I take things over, better would be to spend the time recruiting, training and inspiring a volunteer to make things happen.

If I do it all myself, you guys get bored and find something else to do. (I was imagining Old Gray Eagle playing video games while I wrote that last sentence. And yes, my sense of humor gets me in trouble all the time, but we had fun District meetings!)

RMV

You should look at the "Fun at Every Turn" stuff. It is the current plan sent by National for Cub recruiting. It is very specific in suggesting spring recruiting.

The key to make it work well is the Pack leadership inventory. Recruit your leaders first, then it will lessen parent feer in the fall to joining.

Will ask how it is going with the spring recruiting. I have had trouble getting units to buy in.

RMV

I took a class years ago and had a great time. Well worth the cost. Hiked as a Scout, the highlight of my career as an actual Scout.

This summer I have been asked to teach. I too must pay a fee. Can't wait to get back to the ranch!

RMV

If you want to know the name and number of the guy you should talk to about this, email me direct. I know him well. I almost moved your way last summer!

A few thoughts:

In todays market a seven figure gift in endoment gets you about $40,000 per million, if you are lucky. What does it cost to run a council...I don't know. I do know that $40,000 doesn't go as far as I wished it did. But perhaps the real question should be, what do you want the council to do for you?

Really, in your situation, I would think you would do most of your business by email and through catalogs. The real issue is how to do things for basic services; advancement, training, camping, activities, civic service. Do you have the population of volunteers to handle doing all of these things? Then add the things a Council would do. As I recall, the entire far east council has less than 600 youth. How many are in your district?

One of the districts I help serve has less than 200 youth. We constantly struggle with basic services because we don't have the population to support a district let alone a council. Do I pull a SM to be the Dist Commish, or do I live with out a Commish becauase we have no other candidates for SM? (My answer to this was SM all the way.) It is a rural town, not a military base, so your level of organization is probably stronger, but I bet you would face many of the same issues.

I'm not sure I understand the cultural differences. The Council office is in Japan, a long way away, but with Scouts and Scouters that are all a part of BSA. Most of the units are with military installations or with U.S. Diplomats as I recall.

I truly don't want to discourage you, but you should really ask yourself; What will going down this path solve? If it means better service to youth, that is one thing. If it means that we can do what we want here and now, you may be surprised that all the time is spent doing the things a council must do, not what you intended.

Have faith in your fellow Scouts!

RMV

Got my Eagle in 76, should answer the he/she question.

I miss my socks with garters, but have a feeling they won't be coming back soon. I prefer the over the calf ones in the current version. Anyone tried the new boot socks, look cool, but will they fade to the multitude of colors that the other socks in my drawer seems to be filled with. (20 socks, all different shades of green, I keep thinking that if I just get two or three more pair that perhaps they will fade to match some of the ones I already have.)

Really, I haven't heard a word about uniform changes. When they happen, it seems to be around Jamboree. The current unitforms are way better than the plain green ones of the 70s.

I think the B's don't really hold up better, you can just buy three for the price of one class A so you don't feel bad when you destroy one on a campout. I have to admit that I switched to the wool shirts. They last forever, you can roll them up in your pack and shake out the wrinkles, and somehow still look pretty good. At my first troop meeting as a Scout, I lost all the buttons from the front of my shirt playing british bulldogs, of course I wasn't smart enough to look for the buttons, not when a game was to be played. Not sure how I survived explaining that one to my Mom.

Meeting with a guy from the Cub Scout division from national on Fri afternoon. Will ask what he knows on the uniform gig.

Topic is to be cub recruiting process and a little bit on how the new training is working.

Happy to take suggestions on what to talk about.

RMV

(Welcome Dsteele)

Would be happy to sit around your fire!

I feel your pain with the high turnover. When a DE leaves I find myself having to train someone else. I know that it takes a year to make them productive, and for that year, all of us will hold our breath to see if they survive and better yet, thrive.

The number one reason that most pro's say they quit when they leave is that they didn't realize the number of hours it would take to do the job. All the night meetings and weekends make it tough on family life. Make no mistake, I expect them out there when they are needed.

A few rules I have for my own attendance at meetings. First, will I have an active part in the meeting or am I asked to be there as a dignitary from the office. I do the active meetings, not the ones where I sit and wave. Second, I don't go where things are going well. Don't see me at an activity or event? It means I have complete faith in the vol's ability to run this without me getting in there way. Haven't ever seen me at your unit meeting, congratulations, I think your unit doesn't need me.

The other issues are about moving around and promotions. Some districts are considered districts for entry level DE's, others need someone with experience. This can be for a multitude of reasons, but most often has to do with size of the responsibility. How many units, how many youth, total available youth, FOS to raise. The larger the district, the more experience needed. I personally am an advocate for the two pro district. It means that one of them is usually a little more experienced and that when turnover happens, we have a lot more consistancy in the program. For most districts the geography would make this difficult. And imagine combining with one of your neighboring districts and the issues surrounding that type of merger. Also, experience costs more.

How often should a new person be put into vol positions? I would think that after three years, a person would have done what they came to do, fought the battles they came to work on, given every resource they can, and be ready for a new challenge. DE is the same way. After three years, a fresh challenge makes sense for them. Doesn't mean that we have to move either out after three years.

What is being done? I just heard that a new SRI test is coming out. (not sure what SRI stands for) This is a test that applicants used to take to see if they would be a good candidate. The new one will hopefully be a better tool than the one we used befor and make us as managers better able to hire someone good for you.

There are many councils that can't get anyone to apply. Anything that we can do to send good candidates to the council will help. They end up hiring a warm body to take some of the heat off of them. Not a great plan, but at the same time, we don't have positions that are not full time already. Add a DE job to being a middle manager, and suddenly the outside world starts to sound good.

If all a Scout in college hears from the Scouters around him is how awful the pro's are, why would they subject themselves to becoming a part of this group? (That is my story by the way.)

What makes a good candidate? Desire to succeed. Good sales skills. Good organizational skills. Good people skills. Willing to work long hours. Wow...wish I could pay the successful candidate more. When I call the region and ask for someone with two to three years experience, they laugh. Those candidates are not available unless you grow them in your own council.

What would you suggest we do to keep people around longer?

RMV

Here are a few thoughts on some of your specific questions.

Does it mean national evaluated the council performance and found it to be satisfactory?

No. But it does mean that the council wasn't found to be breaking some major rules in purposful ways. If a council board was to vote for letting youth ride in the back of pick ups, as an example, then the charter could be pulled. I guess this would be the way that National could hammer a Council to follow the rules. I have not heard of this ever happening, but it could.

Does it mean the books (money and membership) were audited?

Every Council does have its books audited by an outside accounting firm each year. A copy of that audit is sent to National. Membership is only audited when National believes there is a problem or when you get a new SE. When you get a new Scout Executive, the council gets what is called a "regional review" done by a member of the regional staff. This is a tool to assist the new SE in getting their hands around all the issues facing the council.

Does it mean the camping/training/recruiting/roundtable programs were reviewed and "personal improvement plans" were established for the coming year?

The charter applications is a multipage docucment asking many questions about program and the plans for the next year. I have helped fill out a part of one and the questions are numerous and complex.

Or doesn't it?

It asks questions of plans, but is not a guarantee that those plans will be carried out. Think of it as a very long quality unit application.

RMV

Thick skin is in my job description. But you know....I do admit that sometimes we deserve what we get.

RMV

Thanks for the welcome!

Would put my tenure somewhere in the middle. Been a pro for 17 years. Involved in Scouting since 1969.

Read posts on both sides of the issue. Most were fair. I am one of the ones that am on a mission to grow the program. Every life I put at the feet of good volunteers is one that I might have saved or helped. As a servant of youth, it is nice to know that I have been able to make a difference in this world. I would be surprised if more than 10 youth in my council know my name. Because I am a middle manager, most units have no idea that I am out there either. My job is to teach DE's to be good ones.

I can't speak for all pro's, but I think that most of us look at volunteers as individuals. Some I would do anything for and believe anything they tell me, others I won't waste my time with. Empty calories. I try to surround myself with volunteers that are positive about what we are doing and are likely to be able to attract more volunteers to them. Do we always agree? No. But we believe in each other. I do think the perception issue is a two way street. Both groups have to want it.

Do I make mistakes. Absolutely. Are there volunteers that can't stand me. Absolutely. When was the last time I attended a weekly troop meeting? Before I became a pro. (I tried once, but the SM thought I was spying on him.)

Unfortunately, I spend a lot of time trying to mediate issues between volunteers. One of my favorite sayings is, "I can help you succeed, but I can't help you get along."

I think that in the end the relationship has to come down to trying to work together. I am in a large council that is financially solvent. I hear the stories from some councils that lack the resources to provide basic services.

If your DE is wondering if his pay check will clear, how can he devote his full effort to making Scouting succeed? Get your council finances in order and you will quickly see the pro's moving into other areas of importance. If the popcorn sale in your council was to triple, what would happen? Units would have three times the money to provide quality program.

RMV

A few thoughts about growth. If we consider this a movement, if we believe that we can change the world, if we believe that every young man would benefit from being a Scout, then why would anyone consider growth anything other than a basic expectation? If the program is of value to a few, imagine how much more value would be gained from having more youth participate.

Yes, growth means more money; but it also means that another mind is at the start of the Scouting trail, ready to be shaped by the dedication of so many great volunteers.

To say that growth is only about money, would be like saying that the conflict in Iraq is only about oil. Money has something to do with it, but it isn't everything.

I see this movement as a partnership between volunteers and professionals. The vast majority of the work is done by volunteers. The administrative details that a professional should deal with should make it easier for volunteers to be successful.

RMV

Proud Professional