Put Your Family First

Hi anarchist,

Just to let you know, I checked with area councel for our area and asked about the belt loops and what you posted was not completly correct. This is the info they gave us:

Belt loops are awarded to boys who complete the three belt loop requirements in an academic subject or sport. Participation can take place individually or with the family, in the den or pack, or in the school or community. Academics belt loops are gold, and Sports belt loops are silver.

Belt loops may be worn with the Cub Scout uniform on the Cub Scout belt. Webelos Scouts who have chosen to wear the khaki uniform may still wear the blue Cub Scout belt so as to display the belt loops they have earned.

Many Webelos Scouts may earn belt loops and pins a second time to qualify for Webelos activity badges. All boys may earn belt loops more than once; however, leaders should encourage boys to try different requirements and earn the pin. Packs should have a clear policy in place to determine whether the pack or the boy's family will be responsible for the cost of awards that are earned more than once.

Hope this clears some things up for everyone.

Also, here is an update. Our area councel is going to work with the old den/pack to get the reimbursement. We were supposed to receive a little under $50 back, but we are only asking for $40. Since there is no rules in place with the old den/pack, the area councel said that they will reimburse. They will probably make a rule on this after we get the reimbursement so this does not happen again. Which is a great idea.

Ok, that makes sense, we did those 2 out of the den/pack also. Plus, the skiing, golfing, things like that. We could have done those with the pack, but for skiing, we would have to coordinate with 12 other families and drive 50 some or more miles. That would have been interesting.

Just to let everyone know, since we kept track of the belt loops my son did not receive but earned, we just went to the scout shop and picked them all up. When I spoke with the old scout leader yesterday, I let him know we picked up the belt loops, all he could say was our son did not earn them because he did not do those things with the den. I did remind him that our son did come in and present what he had learned with the den and according to the books, that was exactly what he needed to do and he earned all the belt loops we picked up.

Our old den/pack went from September-August and normally it is February-January. Our new pack is February-January. We put in over $100 with the old pack, mainly for field trips for April until August, but the den/pack does not give the money to pay for the boys to the event until the day of the event. So technically we should receive the dues for Feb.-August the time we will not be with them (there is no den/pack rules on reimbursement at all for dues) and then everything we put into for the field trips we will not be attending with them. The old pack is not hurting for money and we thought this was only fair and then just give the money to the new den/pack. I hope this makes sense, I am doing a few dozen other things at once, multi-tasking. If it doesn't just let me know.

Thank you for the information Torveaux.

Oh sorry, no, our son earned belt loops before he was a Webelos and didn't receive them. Also, we know that after the boys turn Webelos we can't work on projects on the side and sign off on them. The things we were talking about was before Webelos. Sorry for confusion. Plus, I don't believe that FScouter meant that all leaders are untrained or rogue leaders, I know I didn't. I have met some really great leaders.

About the dues for the den/pack, there is no policy for our old den/pack and there should be 1 in place. With the reimbursement we are wanting for activities that have not happened yet, the activities are on the schedule but are not paid for until that day of the event when we go to that event. We didn't ask for anything that we shouldn't receive back. Our old den/pack makes enough from what the scouts sell and then we as parents usually put in a couple hundred extra above and beyond den/pack fees so there should not be a problem with reimbursement. Our old den/pack has been a few hundred dollars ahead every year and that just goes into the next year for any scout that cannot afford things, but in the past 4 years that I know of, the extra money has not been needed so just revolves into the next year. Now if we were still apart of the den/pack and could not go to an activity then I can understand no reimbursement, but that is not the case. We only want to get reimbursement to give to new den/pack for the same types of activities we will be doing with them and not the old den/pack. If we cannot get reimbursement that is ok, we are not hurting for money, it is just the principal of the matter. I hope I cleared up a few things. I hate confusing people. Night everyone.

I apologize. I did not mean to make you feel like you have waisted your time. This was the very first home we have purchased and with finalizing that, moving and getting everything else sorted out including our son with scouts, things have been just a little stressfull. I really don't know how other packs or dens work, but the ones we have been apart of, no leader has had to put their own money in to purchase anything. Most of the time we have extra money from previous years to be able to do extra things.

I would like to thank everyone who posted to help us figure out what we should do. Laurie gave us the idea to go and just purchase the belt loops that our son earned from the Scout Shop. Also, FScouter, it is sad that we have been working with untrained or rogue leaders. After moving into a new den and pack we have found many, many discrepancies on what our old den and pack had been doing. But the one thing we are keeping in mind is that this is for our boys and to teach them right from wrong, to learn things that they will take with them into adulthood. This really isn't about us, but we have had a lot of fun helping our son and working with the other boys to learn and grow along the way. I can also say that by having our son in scouts, it has helped myself to be a better parent and teacher.

Thanks everybody.(This message has been edited by Put Your Family First)

Thank you for the responses. This response is mainly for ScoutNut.

I really don't have time to type a response for everything you have written. But I can say we have gone to the Pack treasurer and have spoken to the old den leader for reimbursement. No, awards are not purchased ahead of time for our old den or pack, they are purchased after the boys complete and have earned them. We already knew that the den purchased 1 belt loop, etc., etc., etc.. That is why we have always explained to the old den leader we will be more than happy to purchase anything extra our son has earned. We had no idea we could go to the scout shop and purchase them on our own without signatures until posting this response. Plus, for activities that have not been done and outings, things are purchased right before the den does the activity and the outings are purchased when we go on the outings not before, so there is no reason for a scout not to be reimbursed for all of that. Also, the old den leader knows what our son has done outside of the group because a lot of what the boys need to do is present things for the den to see and also explain what they have learned.

Your response really sounds like you are parrating from a book and you really didn't read the response I had posted. If I didn't fully explain myself I apologize, but from other responses it sounds like I had. I was not speaking of the activities that are done as a Webelos, I am speaking of belt loops that have been able to be earned for the past few years before the boys even start Webelos. I am not speaking of awards that are earned from doing activities with the den/pack.

At this time we will be going to the BSA in our area to find out about reimbursement for the rest of the year from our old pack. We put in well over $100 to our den/pack for awards, activities, and outings for the whole year and we were only there for 5 months for everything but outings. Outings begin for our old den and new in April. For the belt loops our son has earned we will just go to the scout store. I hope I explained everything, there is so much more I could put down but I would then be taking time away from our son and the rest of our family having fun.

Everyone take care.

That's what we thought but our new den leader said we had to get a signature from his old den leader to purchase the belt loops our son has earned. I think we will just go down and purchase the ones our son has earned and see if we can do that without the old den leaders signature. Our son is still working on the other belt loops he hasn't earned and the 6 badges he hasn't earned. He has so much fun learning the new activities and working on new projects.

Thank you so much for the reply.....

We paid all of our yearly dues in September 2004 for the year 2005 in our previous den. We then bought a new home and moved in Jan. 2005. We had to pay our yearly dues again in our new den for 2005 and then went back to the old den to get reimbursement for the months we will not be with them and were told that we will not get any money back. How do we get reimburesed for what we are owed? We were only with the old pack for 5 months.

Another problem we encountered is our son did not get 5 badges he had earned at the old pack, the new pack did get him those badges. But then our son has also earned many of the belt loops too and he only receieved 1 from the old pack. Our new leader has said we have to get verification and signature from old leader to get all the belt loops our son has earned. We spoke to the old leader and he will not allow our son to get any belt loops he has earned. The old leader stated that most of what our son did was with his family and he said the only way he will sign off on anything is if our son did all of the activiies in the den meetings or at special events with the den or pack. But that is not what the rules state to receive the belt loops. The belt loops are for the scout doing their best to learn about the sport or academic activity, and by putting the new techniques to practice with fellow scouts, in their community, or working with an adult. Does anyone have any advice on what we need to do or should do?

Our son has worked so hard from Tiger Cub, Bobcat, Wolf, Bear until now, he is close to finishing his 1st year of Webelos. He now has earned 14 badges out of 20 and has a great time working on each one. Our son is so proud to have also earned his Compass Point Emblem too. He feels so bad that his scouts/friends have all kinds of awards that he himself has earned and does not get himself. I am a mom and a teacher and this just breaks my heart every time someone earns an award and he does not receive one himself even though he completed the requirements. We have had many conversations with his old leader before we moved and after and it is almost like he doesn't have time and just doesn't care. Please help us help our son. Thank you for any advice or suggestions.