Plowboy
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Posts posted by Plowboy
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I don't know how much it matters to the discussion but since someone brought up the DL and CM doing the right thing, in this case the CM, DL, and Scoutparent are all the same person. I'm the CC.
Also, the award DID exist within the BSA awards for Cub Scouts. What makes attendance different is that the unit defines the criteria. Since we didn't define it until 2011, it is odd for me to award it for 2010 and 2009. That said, if you applied the criteria retroactively, the boys would have earned it. I wasn't in favor of the retroactive awards, but have since yielded.
FYI, our criteria to earn is missing no more than two den meetings and one pack meeting/event. Based on research, it seemed pretty consistant with what other packs are doing. We always allow den leaders to make exceptions based on their judgement. So far, we've had no abuse of the exception "clause".
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Two years ago we started using the Perfect Attendance award. We defined the criteria and gave out the bars at the end of the program year at our annual camp out. Since all of our second year Webelos are crossing over soon, we decided to credit them with their pin for this year since their program year is ending in Feb and not May. The troops don't use the attendance award, so no chance of them getting double counted in May with a troop.
Our den leaders of the outgoing boys want to take this a step further and award bars for years prior to us using the award as a pack. They have most of their attendance records, apparently, but not all. Two of the boys are the den leaders boys, so there's really no question that they were there for the required number of meetings. I know that between my two boys they have only one missed den meeting between them in three years because one of them was sick once.
I'm struggling with retroactively awarding two years of perfect attendance for an award that we weren't using in those years and for one that has no official BSA criteria. Thus, the criteria that we defined didn't even exist in those years that are now wanted to be awarded.
On the other hand, they would have met the criteria if it had existed. I think it is great that these guys had such dedication to the program no matter if dad was a den leader or not. I can appreciate the desire for recognition as they leave us. It makes a great example for our other boys.
Just looking for opinions on this. Our final decision was to award the past bars and to make sure that our first year Webelos are taken care of in the same way. The program started with our current Bears, TWB dens aren't affected.
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Our Webelos parents have to be registered to attend resident camp. Parents are not required to attend with scouts like Bear camp, but in our pack, we get 100% parent participation, which means... they have to be registered with the BSA. For Bear camp, they don't. Can't say I understand the difference.
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Basementdweller - We have to register them with the BSA. They complete the full adult application. It is a Council requirement.
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ScoutNut - We are required to register parents for Webelos camp.
The update to this story is that we are welcoming a new Tiger Cub and his family to our pack next week.
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Let's all keep this to the interpretation and understanding of the policies and not their merit. That discussion can go down hill fast.
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My biggest question is about partner being his stand in Akela when mom can't be at the meeting.
I'm assuming mom can be registered as Scout Parent when he's Webelo and she can go to camp with him.
I certainly don't expect this to be an issue with the den/pack and we both assume she can't be a registered leader. Only downside for her is telling son that partner can't take him to scout events in her place. I'm hopeful that this isn't a problem.
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I've got questions out to my district, but does anyone know how gay and lesbian parents are officially viewed by BSA? I'll report back on what I hear from my district director.
I've got a prospective Tiger Cub lives with mom and mom's same sex partner. He's super excited about Scouts. Is mom allowed to be his adult partner (Akela)? Can mom's partner bring him to an occasional meeting? I believe she cannot be a registered leader (den, committee, etc), but I've asked for confirmation on that as well.
Awesome mom, awesome kid, and awesome partner. I'm betting this would be a life long Scout based on the boy and the parent. I'm sure our pack would welcome them in a heart beat.
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"The US flag is held upright at all times by the color guard. Sometimes a bit difficult to do by the younger scouts ... "
Actually, our boys can hold a flag upright a lot better than tilting it forward. They have to hold the extended weight, which is harder.
We've done it that way because that's what we were taught by a former Cubmaster. I don't see anything in the US Flag code to support his teachings or yours. That's what I'm trying it find is what is right according to the US government.
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Thanks, all.
The critique wasn't from the promoter. Just some random guy. The promoter loves us as we've done color guard for them six times this year and three last year. The team made the playoffs and they had 48 hours before the first game. They called us first. They proactively called us to set dates at the beginning of teh season, too. We have a good rapport with them.
Draping was a bad word. Thanks for calling me on that. I think "Fall" was a word I read somewhere. The idea being that the flag opens up more to see if more visibly. I'm certainly not defending or promoting the way we are doing it. Just trying to understand if it is correct I've Googled a lot of images and I see all kinds of examples for both. What you don't always get is the context of the ceremony.
We certainly keep the US flag higher. In the picture, you see me standing bahind both flags. These are young boys carrying heavy flags. I won't let a Bear or Tiger hold the bigger flags. We bring the smaller den flags so the younger boys have something to carry. I'm behind the large flags for support and to coach during the ceremony if needed. I do 1on1 instruction for the US/Pack flag bearers, but sometimes, I have to whisper a reminder in their ear, or move an elbow up, down, or in. In the picture, you can see I'm watching the pack flag that it doesn't move above the US flag. In all, these boys do a wonderful job. We've had a lot of fans come up and introduce themselves as former Scouts and indicate if they were Eagle. Every one has commented on how impressed they are with the presentation of the flags by a Cub Scout group. The boys take a lot of pride in those comments. It's great stuff.
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Tilted forward to let the flag fall slightly.
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Our Cub Scout pack was responsible for color guard tonight at a minor league sporting event. Had a guy tell me tonight that the US flag should never "drape" in a color guard. We teach out boys to carry the flags upright and then drape as the stop to present the colors. The US flag is always at the highest point of all flags present, and so forth.
Anyway, I seem to remember reading something that the US flag should be draped, but now I can't find anything in the US code that says this either way. I find rules of not dipping to other flags, but that seems different from what I'm talking about. I can't find any BSA regulations as well.
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I got the idea of the honorary arrow from a University of Scouting session I attended this Fall. They had mentioned honorary arrows for parents, leaders, or mentors who played a significant role in the Scouting life of the boys.
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Our Cubmaster is done this February as his Webelos cross over. I'm helping his den with an "honorary arrow" to acknowledge and commemorate his dedication to his boys throughout their Cub Scout career. He's been a great leader at the den and pack level. We're going to miss him.
Each turks head knot represents the four ranks (sans Bobcat, which I could add, I guess): Tiger, Wolf, Bear, Webelos. The fifth knot represents CubMaster.
Enjoy!
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I find that the leaders sons often get the most out of the program because their family is more plugged into the program more than normal. Yes, sometimes this means that they have to step up more than others do, but in the end, you reap what you sow. I think the benefits warrant the extra work.
Having said that, don't let the other parents/leaders run over you, too.
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Thanks. My goal as CC is to get some good chairs in place for key committee activities and be there to coach, delegate and praise/motivate. I'm seeing several areas that are running much smoother and with greater impact than before. Just today I stopped by our council office to submit new applications. The process with them now is more a formality. We know what we are doing and the total effort in that one area is a tenth of what it was. This gives more time for leading the boys. I'm super excited about the Wolf program this year. I've already mapped out my den meetings for the year and we don't start for another 2+ months. Our leadership team is making a difference and is a healthy group. We've only begun. I've got a great den of boys and see career Scouts in most of them already.
Can you tell I'm a Type A guy?
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Thanks for all the advice and lectures. I was just pointing out a percieved gap in the BSA leader knot program. If you think I'm putting in all of this time for a knot on a shirt, you are nuts. Even more important than THE boys are MY boys. My rewards are in their skill/character development. I could go on and on about what we inherited from prior leadership in Feb and what it is now. The Pack was days away from losing their recharter when I stepped in. We had unregistered DL's everywhere because the paperwork was never dealt with properly. We had several unregistered Scouts for the same reason. I've spent two months cleaning up our roster. I was given ZERO paperwork from the former CM/CC... which was a husband/wife team that phoned it in the last year or more. We had no budget, no regular leaders meetings, and no pack calendar. Instead of doing it all, I've established different committee chairs to delegate responsibilities. We aren't even done yet with the overhaul. Everyone feels we are healthier than ever and that a family is forming. This isn't because of me, but because of a core group that cares deeply about our program and our boys.
So you can stop with the posts about my intentions. My rewards are the hugs and thank yous I get from my sons and occasionally from the other cubs or parents. Knots are part of the BSA program. If you don't like it, take it up with them. My job as a DL, CC, and parent is to take full advantage of what the BSA has to offer our Scouts and leaders. I personally like the program. Value is what you see in it and take from it. If all you see is self recognition and shallow chest puffery, then that's what it is. Doesn't make your point of view the only right one.
Unnecessary flaming is why I've really stayed off of forums anymore. Had too many years of it. Was hoping a Scouting forum where character is a core value would be different.
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Good questions.
The other Tiger leader was AWOL most of the time. He resigned, so I'm stepping in until we can ID a new leader. I've not combined the dens as I'm really hopeful that someone steps up to replace. My goal was not to be a Wolf DL at all, but even with some intense recruiting of parents, we've made no progress in even getting one to rise to ADL. It is sad.
The idea with the ATL is provide temporary help to the new TL's. I was tossed into it last year with little guidance. Knowing what I know now, I could have done a lot better job. I want to spend the first three months with the TL to help her get some feet beneath herself.
I have two sons. One will be a Tiger this year. The other is a Wolf. I wanted to hang back in Tiger for a second term and follow my second son through the program. Not finding DL's has changed that. I'll work towards my DL knots as I go. I think they demonstrate to the boys that you are never too old to learn, grow, and achieve. Just like anything, people/Scouts see what you put into things and what you don't. To me, the knots are just another tool for being an example to the boys. The most important example? No. But I'll take advantage of every tool the BSA provides.
We don't make much use of the Pack Trainer role. Given our fight for just having any DL's, Pack Trainer is more of a luxury for us. I shouldn't belittle the position. My appologies.
My original post was more of an observation after spending about six hours on Father's Day doing CC duties. At the end of it, I was putting in my paperwork for the TL knot and thought about how much I've had to learn for the CC role. Seemed like a lot more to me, but it probably depends on the Pack and the experience of the leader. There was a lot of new ground for me as the CC, but I've taken it head on like my TL role and my new Wolf DL role.
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Was Tiger den leader last year. Wolf leader for two dens this year and asistant for new Tigers. So that means I'm DL for two dens, ADL for Tigers, and CC. I'm giving more than my share. Believe me.
Don't like knots? Don't open threads about them. Easy enough. I get it. Doesn't mean I have to agree.
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I purchased a patch after receiving training on 1st Aid, CPR, and AED from the online source someone listed. However, I put it on my 1st Aid pack. A few of us have 1st aid packs that we've built as part of our Emergency Preparedness work. Our packs are with us at all times when assembled as a Cub Scout group. I put our pack numbers and the patch on my pack so that people know what it is. I figure, if I am the one that needs first aid, someone might see the patch on the bag and know to look in it for necessary supplies. Seems more important use than on my uniform.
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With virtually every position in the Cub Pack having a knot including the Pack Trainer, which makes no sense to me, why not the Committee Chair? I took over CC in Feb and can tell you that I've learned a ton, put in lots of hours, and have as much impact on the Pack as the CM. We work well together. So why is this important and demanding role excluded when a CM has two unit leader knots that can be earned?
Reconciling Past Attendance Award
in Cub Scouts
Posted
bls2 wrote: BUT
on the other hand...
if they receive a bar for one year of perfect attendance, that would be what they have to hang on the wall with all of their other Cub Scout awards and acheivements....
but it would seem silly (to me anyway) to be proud of a one year perfect attendance, knowing that I had 4 years or whatever....
Makes that one year award equally meaningless, IMO.
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This is right in line with how we were trying to reconcile this. Is it a meaningless award or is it meaningful. We could slice it both ways in both directions. In the end, we err on the side of the boy.