pdunbar

Eammon

Not all CO's are active or really that interested in their units. This is where many of our units get into trouble. The same can be said for unit commissoners, spme take the positiion but do not follow through with the obligations of their job. One could then argue that the district commissoner isn't doing their job. What not go further and argue that the DE has dropped the ball.

When you really get down to it, the boys and their unit leaders in some cases have to resolve their problems on their own. Setting goals, both short and long term, may help to prevent to many conflicts. If the troop is running by the seat of its pants, problems are sure to arise!

CO,COR Nice concept but not all of us are lucky enought to have an active CO. We are getting a new Co and have plans to try to get them motivated towards scouting. Maybe they will become interested and help solve problems like this one.

ASM's!! You need to get involved with your SM. Establish goals with the ultimate goals being boy-led and FUN!!

Boys need to learn that there are other solutions availble besides quitting.. If they are really into scouting it will take more than a SM that they don't like to quit.

About her boobies, she probably does have them. Statements may have been taken out of context.

Our troop just "dumped " our CO. Sometimes you have to do things you don't want to do. I think if the local council would have helped we may not have lost our CO. And BobWHite, maybe if we would have worked as a unit we may have been able to smooth out our differences with the CR.

I have a hard time believing that the SM won't cooperate with the committee. Maybe you need more people on the committee. Ideally you are either an ASM or an Advancement Chair!

Mikr F

My youngest went to Philmont and had an awesome time. One of the scouts only lasted 1 day and went home. She didn't get along with her fellow scouts. I guess you have no choice. I hope you have a wonderful trip!!

I was raised on meat and potatoes, but no longer. Einstein once said that "man will be judged not by how he treated his fellow man but on how he treated his fellow animals". Think for yourself an GO VEGAN!!

Mike F

Once took a special needs scout to top of our tallest mountain. It took over 16 hours to do what we normally would have done in 12. It also took quite a bit of planning and more than the usual number of adults. At no time were we in any real danger. Just can't allow it if possible.

Unfortunalely, in your case, a trek is not one day. I know that you have concern for all the boys going on this trek. How has the scout performed on other outings? Philmont is high adventure, and as much as I hate to leave no scout behind, I would be tempted to leave our special needs child behind. My 2 sons would not have allowed me to do that and I am very proud of them for being who they have become, true Eagles. Many of the scouts in our troop would have defended the scout's right to go, and would be willing to adjust the trip accordingly. They really like the scout in our troop, because despite his limitations, he is a team player. If that wasn't the case, I think they would have chosen to leave him behind if it was possible.

Basically, if the scout is physically able to attend, I would try to bring him. If out of control, his father would have to come. Maybe a compromise could be reached, such as half a trek.

BobWhite

Do you believe that the day will come when we will see girls in standard scouting? Not just in venturing.

BobWhite

I can only speak for myself, but I do follow the rules of scouting laid down by the almighty BSA executives when I work with the boys. I do, however, have every right to question any of their rules, and bring about change to BSA policies. Scouting is a dynamic entity which only will get better with time. I can only hope that if a change is made to the rules that you don't like, that we will all honor your right to fight for change.

BobWHite

I have a hard time believing that someone in BSA came up with the policies regarding homosexuals. They more than likely came from pressure from local CO's. Before the rule were made, there were no rules. Why didn't the CO's that wanted the rules not just leave and form a new youth group?

BobWHite

Who is BSa? What forced them into making that policy anywhere!? Didn't the conservative right force the issue?

I know many divorced leaders. Are they ideal role models?

All of you

My answer to the last question is if they choose to be.

BobWHite

Tour permits were a major problem with our CO. No one was doing them! At the last minute I would do them and fax therm to our LC. I explained that our committee needed a outdoor program chair, who would be responsible for them. He would get angry at me for waiting for the last minute to do them, but I was not suppose to be the tour leader nor outdoor chair. I only did them at the last minute because n no one else would have and the trip would have to be cancelled. Maybe we should have cancelled one to get the CR to understand but would that had been fair to the scouts?

Laurie

Our CO demanded that we all submit new adult registations when we rechartered this year. One of our leaders who had been on the committee sent the merit badge form to the CO. I know that he didn't have to do that, but he did, and they denied him the right to teach the merit badge.

Our UC is the person that really messed this all up. He never tried to help resolve our problems. He just kept putting wood on the fire in regards to our CR telling him he could do anything that he wanted. As you know that is not true!! The CO executive has more power. By the time we contacted the CO executive, who is best freinds with the CR, it was out of control. The executive even told me that the CR was out of control but due to their relationship nothing could be done. I am convinced that our UC could have helped resolve our conflicts. Our main problems with the CR was a lack of paople being allowed to help the troop. An example is when the new libraian moved into town, her husband asked if he could be part of our troop. His credentials are impressive..A registered Maine Guide, ex-scoutmaster over 20 years of service, and as we speak hi is hiking the Appalachian Trail. The CR told him no thanks we have enough people. Our committee meetings consisted of the scoutmaster and the advancement chair. The CR and CC(also from the CO) rarely came to a meeting. We could have used his help. I am pleased to tell you the the ex-scoutmaster is very excited about helping our "new" troop!

We had over 3500 dollars in our account and and 2000 dollars in equipment. We voted to leave even if we had to lose it all! Because we did fight for it, most of it will be back with the new unit. The old CO will not be rechartering because there are no other boys to be found in our community. Our pack is very excited that we have moved on because they too felt that the old CO was very inedequate.

I joined scouting when my 2 boys joined. Ihave raised my sons to be very tolerant of all paople. I have enver expressed those beliefs to the boys in the troop. My goal in scouting is to teach bous leadership skills through outdoor activities. My real problem with scouting and the gay issue is that it was not origianally an issue in scouting. I believe very conservative people pushed this issue on BSA. I feel every CO has the right to decide just how tolerate an unit will be. If your CO doesn't want any gay leaders that is fine by me. I live in the Northeast where many communities are a little more liberal in this regard. Why should we not decide our own fate. I meant why doesn't are own CO have the right to set their own standards. Mind you I have no problem if BSA's policy was sexuality has no place in scouting. I know that you have the best interest of your boys at heart. So do I! I just hate the idea that some eagle scout would be denied the opportunity to continuing working in scouts just because he is gay.

BobWHite

You make some very good points on your last post. I never felt that homosexuals should use scouting to their own advantage of advancing their lifestyle. I just think scouting should be asexual in nature. No ands or buts. If someone was homosexual and started preaching their lifestyle or even mentioning it, I would feel it to be appropiate to terminate them. Actually the CO could do that considering all the power that they control. Do you believe all gays are activists?

BobWHite

SInce you obviously jave more knowledge about scouting than I do,(which I freely admit that you do), why can't you tell me about Powell and gay scouts

Do you know what you call 32 girls in West Virgnia? Nice set of teeth

Sparkie

A little knowledge can make you dangerous! No harm meant by that!! Most dental schools only teach the very basic principles of tooth removal and very few of today's young dentist are comfortable removing teeth. BTW I removed 4 premolars today!

I have a dental practice and my markrting technique is very simple....Treat your patients as you would treat yourself/ Not all of us are trying to do a song and dance!

BobWhite

The most effective way to bring about change is from within. I am not gay, but give me a break!! This concept of gays in scouting was never mentioned by Powell!! It originated from within various CO's that felt a need to use scouting as a method to fight homosexuality. What a great way to use young men!!

Rooster7 and evmori

What does this all have to

do with scouting anyways.

Scouting is teaching young boys leadership skills through outdoor activities. Are you using scouting as a sounding board for your own beliefs. Sexuality has no place in scouting! None of my gay freinds would ever bring sexual ideas into scouting.

Of course there are 2 sides of any story. I did not come here for a vote of innocent or guilty Judge BW. I came here to help the boys in the troop. We tried to work with the CO. I actually was a member of the CO ten years ago. BW you assume that we didn't try to work it out!

Anybody? Is Bob White always this arrogant? I do not mean him any harm, but is he the God of scouting. Earlier in one of my post I clearly stated the the Co has c the right of control. I just believe when they are so far removed from reality that perhaps some of you would have suggestions to help me. We fought for the equipment and funds for the boys and it was very difficult to do without invovling them, but I am very proud of the fact that we were able to obtain our equipment.

NJcub

Our new CO asked for the equipment. Our new CO has well over 150 members, our old CO only had 10. They didn't dare fight the new CO, esp since the new CO was actually the original CO.

BobWhite

I try to do my best!! Ever hear those words?

NJcub

Several methods were used to place pressure on the Co. Our CO was a service club with 10 members. It would be very hard for them to do anything negative to the CR.

Bob White

Can you run a troop with a less than adequate committee? No!!!!!

Who is responsible for that committee? The CO. Were their breaking their contract with BSA by not fulfilling their requirements? Yes they were. Who should have helped us? The local council. Were we right in our actions? Yes we were. End of story!!!

Rooster7

Again, don't confuse God with our societies norms!! What is so wrong with love between any 2 people??

I don't bfollow any organized religions but if I chose one I might want to follow Jesus's lead and be Jewish!!

Bob White

In our case all of the parents and boys left the old CO because they did not fulfill their duty as CO. We did not have a functioning committee, despite the fact that we had at least 8 adults ready to fulfill committee positions. The CR did not allow new members on the committee. Furthermore, our committee chair was also from the CO. His attendance in two years was a grand total of 3 meetings. He had no excuse for this. To compound the issue our Cr was also our tresurer. We felt that this was inappropiate but our CO would not relieve him of this position. At meetings, he never gave us a tresurer's report.

We called out local coucil for help and recieved none. Had our unit commisioner meant with us we might have been able to resolve our problems. Our unit commisioner felt that the CO and CR could do what ever they wanted, ioncluding tyerminationg individuals without just cause. I was one of those individuals. I loev scouting. My belief isw give the boys an exciting program and they will achieve great things including being boy-led!! I was accused of making too many eagles!! I taught a total of 2 merit badges in the last seven years. The only thing I am guilty of is getting the boys juiced up about scouting. I believ scouting is based arounfd outings and using those outings to teach leadership responsibilities to the boys.

Now, why didn't we reciiev help from our local council? The Co was not fulfilling their obliagations. Without their help we had no choice but to leave. The troop would have died. Parents were all fed up. The same parents that busted their humps over the years raising money for their boys. Why should we not have had help? Why should we not have our gear and money?

Rooster7

I do believe ibn the existense of a higher being, but have given up on organized religion a long time ago. If I am to be judges some day, I hope I am judged on how I treated my fellow people. I never will understand how some people can threaten others about the final judgement day. What gives one person the right. Religion quite often has very little to do with God, but is used as a means to justifies one owns societal beliefs. Why would God be upset if 2 people really loved each other.