paschalljf

I just felt an aneurysm coming on... you mean that none of my BSA outdoor training (Webelos Ldr Outdoor Trng, Wood Badge) will crossover and I have to start all over again with GS Outdoor Trng? There has to be a smarter way to do this considering that there are probably many Dads who end up doing both BSA and GSUSA and it's not practical to do two entire pipelines of training just because GSUSA and BSA remain unlinked. I'm guessing that GSUSA loses a lot of would-be GS Dads this way. Is there a web site somewhere that you recommend for GS Outdoor Training?

Cubmaster Joe

I'm currently a Cubmaster with a son who is a Webelos, and I'm very involved in all aspects of scouting and anticipate being so for the future. However, my son has 3 younger sisters- one a brownie one getting ready to start daisies. Is there a possible niche for an active Dad in Brownies or Girls Scouts? I wouldn't be the least bit interestd in any of the day-to-day meeting stuff (I've seen what they do) but I'd love to lead the outdoor stuff if/when they do any of it. Can anyone tell me if they have ever heard of dads being active in Brownie/GSA and if there is a leader billet for 'Camping Guy'?

Cubmaster Joe

Let's not forget that B-P himself wore his old military campaign hate and that's what started it all. Somewhere in there, BSA (American version) decided to make an 'official' (imitation B-P) hat and gouge us all for it. B-P would probably agree wholeheartedly with your creative solution.

Amen, brother. I'm pretty sure that B-P himself would agree wholeheartedly. Now that we have identified the problem, does anyone know the proper venue for bringing this issue up to national to at leats engage in some debate at their level?

I think the by-law is probably a good approach- better if actually enforced, because as folks have pointed out, we actually are a uniformed organization although we disagree sometimes on how far that should be enforced. I also have a hard time with leaders who have untucked shirts, too tight shirts (overweight Scouter issues aside, if you expand, you should get a bigger shirt), and boys who come partially uniformed because their parents can't find certain items. When all is said and done, we have to strike a balance between being flexible in our 'militarism' in order to encourage the growth of young boys, but still avoid compromising the key aspects of scouting. It's not ans easy issue, but that's why we can discuss it in forums like this.

For those interested, I'd recommend reading Baden-Powell's 1908 'Scouting for Boys'. I just finished it and it is pretty eye-opening to see how far we have strayed from his vision in some aspects (check the part on 'uniform')

Semper Scouts,

CM Pack 683

RipVanScouter,

I agree that uniformity should be sought and in this case, and the better judgment would probably lead toward choosing the blue 'cargo pants', I cannot agree in the inference that this is reprehensible. You point out that this does in fact violate the 'letter of the law' and possibly the 'spirit' of the current BSA rules. However, I will also point out that the current BSA rules are in gross violation of the spirit and letter of B-P's original intent for scouting. Which is the more egregious violation? B-P would be rolling over in his grave to hear that professional Scouters are trying to force boys to buy over-priced and poorly made garments. Of course, he would have started rolling over long ago when we first made an 'official' uniform that was neither the best-made nor the best-priced. As I originally stated, Scouting's original intent was to seek uniformity by having boys dress similarly as they pursue the more important 'character-building' of Scouting. Any steps further toward instituting official garments and strictly forcing compliance to purchase them, just gets in the way of Scouting as we were intended to pursue it.

BTW. Lest I be accused of being anti-uniform: I am a United States Marine and understand the needs of uniformity. However, I also know when a bureaucracy is no longer taking care of the troops.

Semper Scouts,

CM Pack 683

Scouters,

This long and laborious debate has covered most of the salient points about what we leaders need to do to set the example for our boys but no one has yet pointed out that National is really the issue here. The BSA uniform is being sold to us and our scouts at well over twice the profit margin of commercial stores. Are we really to beleive that adult cotton shorts cost anywhere near $40 to produce? $56 for long pants? Before we start to scare away would-be scout families by suggesting that they pay up $100 for start-up uniform costs, we should be pretty sure that we are doing right by them and offering a fair product. Scouting is a non-profit but somehow the uniforms are being sold at huge profit. All other arguments aside, it is simply wrong for National to use scouting as a venue to jack up the profit margin on clothing that is simply not expensive to manufacture. We need to push this issue to National to ensure the prices are more realistic before we start forcing our boys to buy over-priced garments.

Semper Scouts,

CM Pack 683

As a CM with a slight addiction to "old School/ Vintage" scout gear (Yucca Packs, Old Mess Kits, etc), I've recently purchased a Campaign Hat (Ebay, $20). However, I am not sure if it is appropriate for me to wear this at Cub function. Can anyone provide some guidance?