pamaha

who conducts the BORs for Sea Scouts Eagle candidates? Is it the same district eagle advancement committee as Boy Scouts?

Hey guys, I bet you thought you lost me, but I'm still here. Thank you for all your valuable input. I am now aware that there is NO attendance requirement set in stone by BSA, but that a CO can set guidelines on what it expects of its participants. If this is a good thing or not is another issue. Measuring the paticipation becomes more tricky apparently as there are as many opinions on this as there are people involved. YES, we always try to encourage kids to keep coming back, even if it IS sporadic. YES, we make him feel a part of the group and greet him enthusiastically when he DOES show up, but does he pass his BOR when the conversation goes like this:

"Well, Johnnie, we see you're here to advance to STAR. That's great. Tell us about the POR and how you feel you accomplished your job."

"Well, I was PL for the Dragons and I always made sure I ket my patrol in line during meetings when I was here."

"OK, did you have any patrol meetings?"

"no"

"HOw about on campouts...how did being PL make you behave differently inthose situations?"

"Well, I don't like camping so I haven't been on any campouts since I've been PL."

"Have you had discussions with the ASPL or SPL about other things the troop might do that would interest you more and make you want to be here more often? OR talked to the other boys in your patrol about other activities they might want to do?"

"Not really. My older brother is an Eagle and my dad thinks I should be one, too so that's really why I'm here."

The kids certainly get an "A" for honesty, and WHATEVER he can take away from scouting and use in his life is a plus, no doubt, but do you still change the whole program for ONE and perhaps drive out the other 39??? Do you suggest that maybe he try to find another troop that might do the stuff he likes to do better than camping? Our troop has one camp out about every 4-5 weeks so it's obvious he will not be "participating" a whole lot...and I know you're going to say. "Find him another POR", but THIS is the one he wanted and got.

OK...I see one of my biggest problems is the SM and ASM's not guiding this boy properly. Heck, that opens a whole other can or worms!

Anyway, thanks guys/gals. I hope I can always come back for more feedback!

WOW! I never realized my questions would bring about such a variety of answers, but I suppose each person has his/her own opinion.

Being farily new to this forum, I detect a bitter conflict between Fat Old Guy and Bob White, which may or may not be real. Sounds like B.W.'s take on scouting does not allow for opinions and that everything is "in the training or guide book". So why have these discussions? Perhaps I don't need to come to people (yes, total strangers) thinking they may be able to shed a clearer light on the picture since they are not in the midst of it. I'm not in this to "punish" any boy for not paticipating, just trying to set a clear guideline of what is fair for everyone. Other scouts have been made to supply documentation of another conflicting activity when they have had to "take some time out of the program" during a sports season they play in. This particular scout has had carte blance to do (or not) whatever he wants becsue no one wants to upset his dad who is a former SM of the troop. The boy himself has told the SM and ASM's that he would rather be home watching TV. I cannot believe that 39 are wrong and 1 is right...sorry Bob! Why does everyone jump to the conclusion that there "must be somerthing wrong woth the program" if a boy doesn't want to go? Are ALL boys cut out to participate in scouting? Remember, this is not an ideal world we live in and we have to keep those who DO continue to attend, becasue they LIKE the program, interested. Our meetings are 1-1/2 hours each week and the boys (at their PLC meetings) plan on some advancement work with younger scouts, some skill for all levels and then some sort of game or outside activity for each meeting. Anyway, i drift from my original question...since the boy doesn't want to be there anyway, why would you change the program to suit his desires, i.e. playing video games or watching TV when the others are happy with the program? Do we chase away 39 other boys so we can keep ONE happy and interersted? Is there an answer in the training book for this one?

I guess I should have prefaced with "Our Troop Guide Book" (written many years ago by people who are no longer in the troop) states that since our troop only has one fund raiser per year, ALL scouts and families MUST participate in order to belong to the troop. Our guide book also states that a scout must notify his PL if he is going to be absent and any scout who has 2 unexcused absences shall be brought up for discussion at the PLC as to his interest in being a part of the troop. Perhaps our guide book is not in sync with BSA guidelines which is why I was asking. I realize there is no correlation between participating in a fund raiser and earning a merit badge, however, if our guide book is only to be followed by selected individuals, how is THAT in line with scouting principals? Maybe our guide book was not written in line with scouting policies and needs to be addressed and re-written. I don't think I have been in socuting as long as some of you guys, so bear with me, OK? Is it our guide book that is wrong or is it OK to have someone attend, literally, 3 meetings in the past year and consider him an active member? I know we never want to discourage anyone fom being in scouts, but aren't we trying to instill good values inthese young boys? Commitment? Dependability? Loyalty? Am I taking this too seriously or what?

What is acceptable attendance on the part of a scout? Is there a BSA guideline? What about a scout who does not attend regular weekly meetings, does not assist in the ONLY yearly fund raising event and then signs up for merit badge college and is allowed to do so because the ASM in charge of camping is a friend of the scout's dad?

Thanks, all for your valuable info! While it is never a pleasant task to ask someone to leave, at this point, we have no choice. The main issue, to me, is that all our boys are suffering and some people keep forgetting that WE ARE HERE FOR THE BOYS. It will be an interesting meeting to say the least, and I will keep you all posted on the outcome if you are interested.

Thanks for not making my question seem like stupid one. I really appreciate it!(This message has been edited by pamaha)

KA6BSA hit on the problem...this troop once had a CO that was nowhere to be seen, nor did they supply a meeting place for socuts. SM signed all applications that went to council and the SM also ran the committee meetings with the asst SM's. There was little, or no parent invlvement. Two years ago there was an influx of transfers from other states, counties, etc. and all new parents volunteered to help out in any way. Meanwhile, a local church, who already had the Cubs that feed into this troop asked our committee to discuss the possibility of bringing the troop over. In a nearly unanimous decision, we transfered the troop to a new CO. The new CO has now separated MC's and SM positions since there are adequate adults who are willing to take on committee responsibilities. The "old gang" wants things back the way they were with the SM running both sides of the program and they think that if they all sign up as MC's they can change the rules. This has already been addressed at toop committee level, district level and local council, yet these parents from the old regime are STILL at it, trying to undermine every move the committee makes. Now mind you, the SM and the boys have not been denied ANYTHING they have requested, but there is apparently one bad apple spoiling it for everyone. Our CO has decided, after much discussion with council, that the only resolution at this point is for the troop to split. Apparently, this is not alwasy a bad thing in that you now have 2 separate strong troops.

SO....the issue to deny the parents MC status stems promarily with the fact that they are not behaving in a manner that is acceptable with our CO and certainly does not conform to the scout oath and law...oh, did I mention that this same bad apple tried to get the kids to overturn the elections the boys had last year when his son was not selected as SPL???

It is a horrible situation and unfortunatley, the boys are suffering as the SM and his merry bunch of cohorts are spending more time starting trouble with the committee than working with the boys!

I know that the Charter Organization must approve all adult leaders for troop, but does the same hold true for adults who simply want to be on the committee? We are undergoing some turmoil within our troop and suddenly, all the parents who could not be bothered to be involved when we needed them are lining up to sign on as MC, just to undermine the current committee and program. Can the charter org deny these applications? Our mandatory positions are filled, and in fact we held an open nomination/election with everyone present and there were no unfavorable comments regarding any of the positions that were filled.