Moggie

I build aircraft carriers for Her Majesty :-D

My British scouts in NYC out of uniform but wearing their neckers, held with a mixture of woggles and friendship knots.

Cheers

Gareth

[quote=*currently max of £3000 per year

I think you'll find that the current fees are £9000/yr

Cheers

Gareth

"According to the Quality Control Systems Corporation' date=' from “1982 through 2008, there have been 724 fatal rollovers of 15-passenger vans in which an occupant of the van was killed in the United States. These crashes killed 1,153 persons and injured an additional 1,957. More than six thousand persons have been involved in fatal rollovers as drivers or passengers in the vans, of whom only 305 were known to be uninjured in these crashes.†The Quality Control Systems Corporation's statistics were drawn from data from the 1982-2008 Fatality Analysis Reporting System database and “involved model year 1981-2008 vans manufactured by Ford, Dodge / DaimlerChrysler, and General Motors / Chevrolet.â€Â" [/quote'] Thanks for this, I think its very interesting the differing perspectives. As I said minibuses as we call them are seen as a very safe mode of transport and this is supported by the Department for Transport in their accident stats (20 & 40 series RAS). Although they do concur that there is an increased fatality rate in roll over accidents. They still remain safer (in the UK) than many other forms of road transport. This possibly explains my surprise (and the curious looks I got when I rented two for a UK scout trip to NY) when I read that they are viewed as less safe in the US. Cheers Gareth

"

The 15-16 seaters tend to be top-heavy and the suspensions wear quickly, so insurance companies aren't too fond of them.

This type of thing?

Cheers

Gareth

Why on earth are 16 seat minibuses considered unsafe? We use them all the time over this side of the pond. Many scout groups own and operate their own, in my own scout group we've thought about buying many times but on balance we find renting them is the better option for us.

Cheers

Gareth

I think my main goal would be to show my son that Scouting is an international movement. It's natural to only think about things on the Pack/District/BSA level, but it could be interesting to meet some boys around his age (10) from a different part of the world and see how their Scouting experiences are similar and different.

Then I think joining escouts.org.uk is the thing to do, you might be crushed in the rush!

I'd say come and visit my group but we're off your planned route

Once you have made contact and agreed a visit you'll need to chat with I guess your special programmes people and get an International Letter of Introduction - this will make life easier.

Whatelse?

Bring lots of patches!

If you have the time perhaps visit Brownsea Island in Poole Harbour the site of the first experimental camp

Cheers

Gareth

Hello From over here,

You will be welcomed by any cub pack you wanted to visit, a good place to try is:

http://www.escouts.org.uk

London: Personally I wouldn't bother with BP House there are plenty of other things to see and do,

I concur the Science Museum is great as is the Natural History Museum next door. Pop over to Greenwich and you visit the Old Royal Naval College, the National Maritime Museum and the Royal Observatory where you can stand in both the eastern and western hemispheres.

About the UK:

Remember to look the other way crossing the roads - and you wont get arrested for jaywalking. Travel costs will be absolutely horrifying, especially if are driving. Traffic may well be faster than you are used too.

The UK is not as big as we think but its not that small either.

It's also further north than the lower 49 States so you get more daylight (significantly more so in late June and July).

The weather is best described as....damp. What does this mean? well it will rain at some point but it has an odd effect on the temperature you feel. Sometimes it will seem that its a lot hotter than the thermometer says but equally you find youself convinced that device is just plain lying and wondering why you feel so cold.

What do want to get out of meeting UK cubs?

I'll answer your questions where I can.

Gareth

1st Westbury Cub Scouts

use the qr code to visit the group website

"Then it suddenly flashed upon me that this self-acting process would necessarily improve the race, because in every generation the inferior would inevitably be killed off and the superior would remain -- that is, the fittest would survive. Then at once I seemed to see the whole effect of this..." Alfred Russel Wallace, MY LIFE, (London, 1905), p. 362

 

"...the whole method of species modification became clear to me, and in the two hours of my fit I had thought out the main points of the theory. That same evening I sketch out the draft of a paper; and in the two succeeding evenings I wrote it out, and sent it by the next post to Mr. Darwin." Wallace, THE WONDERFUL CENTURY, p 140

 

"Suddenly it occurred to the feverish naturalist in a lightning flash of insight that Malthus' checks to human increase... must, in similar or analogous way, operate in the natural world as well...

It was Darwin's unpublished conception down to the last detail, independently duplicated by a man sitting in a hut at the world's end." Eiseley, "ALFRED RUSSEL WALLACE", p. 80.

 

My universe has libraries, that have books.

 

Stosh

 

http://www.crf-usa.org/black-history-month/the-constitution-and-slavery

"This survival of the fittest, which I have here sought to express in mechanical terms, is that which Mr. Darwin has called 'natural selection', or the preservation of favoured races in the struggle for life."

Further what Darwin went on to suggest that it was not survival of the fittest that supported his concept of natural selection but rather survival of the good enough.

Cheers

Gareth

The Founding Fathers knew full well the hypocrisy of the document at the time, but sold out to the southern states insisting on slavery or they wouldn't have backed the revolution. I believe it was Jefferson who said something about having a wolf by the ears in reference to the problem.

 

Prior to Darwin? Heck, he stole every one eles's ideas for his book. Wallace came up with the idea and coined it survival of the fittest to explain why the superior species were able to progress and not be "set back" by the inferiors. The concepts of evolution go way back to the Greek and Roman times in some form or another. Most of the ideas that philosophically formulated about evolution appeared in the time period between 500 BC and BC. Darwin took/stole credit for a lot of other people's philosophies. Aristotle, Plato and Socrates all philosophized on the subject.

 

`We are united in the belief that Iraq's aggression must not be tolerated. No peaceful international order is possible if larger states can devour their smaller neighbors.'' - One can't express anti-Darwinism any better than that. Quote taken from the Bush speech you are referring to.

 

"Saddam Hussein is literally trying to wipe a country off the face of the Earth." Tyrannical Darwinism once more cited.

 

"We stand today at a unique and extraordinary moment. The crisis in the Persian Gulf, as grave as it is, also offers a rare opportunity to move toward an historic period of cooperation. Out of these troubled times, our fifth objective -- a new world order -- can emerge: a new era -- freer from the threat of terror, stronger in the pursuit of justice, and more secure in the quest for peace. An era in which the nations of the world, East and West, North and South, can prosper and live in harmony. A hundred generations have searched for this elusive path to peace, while a thousand wars raged across the span of human endeavor. Today that new world is struggling to be born, a world quite different from the one we've known. A world where the rule of law supplants the rule of the jungle. A world in which nations recognize the shared responsibility for freedom and justice. A world where the strong respect the rights of the weak. This is the vision that I shared with President Gorbachev in Helsinki. He and other leaders from Europe, the Gulf, and around the world understand that how we manage this crisis today could shape the future for generations to come."

 

One one puts the comment back into the context it was taken out of, one can see it is very anti-Darwinian.

 

Karl Marx was the one who wrote in Das Kapital about how to "speed up" evolution through revolution and anarchy. (Class-Darwinism)

 

Hitler, simply put it into practice with his whole premise of how superior the Aryan Nation was above all others. (Racial-Darwinism)

 

The new world order Bush is referring to is not the one you are suggesting. Instead it's based on the Judeao/Christian dynamics of world peace through cooperation and welfare for all, not the imperialism and conquest of one's weaker neighbors.

 

The principles promoted by Darwin are also the same ones promoted by Rome as it, too, tried to rule the world by militaristic imperialism. Greeks with Aristotle, Plato and Socrates also had the same ideals. Just doesn't work, "The meek shall inherit the world", and it's interesting, the meek are still around in spite of the destructive philosophy of survival of the fittest.

 

Stosh

 

As always happy to be corrected

Gareth

Unfortunately this story has made it on to the BBC on this side of the pond too http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24592482 Gareth

Are minibuses not popular on your side of the pond? They are widely used over here. Cheers Gareth

Well just recovered from cub camp last weekend, 23 cubs in 3 eight man tents. First night usual madness with one tent chatting until 2AM. the second night no problems at all All tents asleep by 23:00. The cubs all went home to their parents Sunday afternoon very happy and very tired. Walked across to another couple of packs that were camping too, and they were pretty much the same. I also had 15 scouts from my group camping in four 5 man tents (we do have to separate the girls and boys) in another nearby field. I love the camp site we use, trees, grass and fresh water.

Cheers

Gareth

I have been reading this discussion with interest. When my son was a Bear, I definitely thought the Bear program was repetitive and also, "too much like school." He was also bored with the program.

 

Webelos I and II go much meatier and more interesting.

 

Baden-Powell Scouting (BPSA) has kids in grades 3-5 together as one group, and that grouping seems good to me. GSUSA has Brownies as girls in grads 2-3. I'd say being a troop leader, grade 3 (second year of Brownies) was where it really got fun.

 

I don't know why we all are pushing so hard to get little little children into Scouting. When I was young, Girl Scouts didn't even start till 2nd grade! I see moms and dads in my town trying so hard to get Daisies started for their little girls (k-1st grade) and the evening meetings are just so hard on kids that young, and the parents are tearing their hair out. We have a big retention problems in 4th and 5th grade too (Juniors) and I think it is because the parents are so burned out.

 

I have a question about pack camping. Why is is Cub Scouts don't camp just with their leaders? I know it is popular to state the Girl Scouts don't go camping, and I'm sure that's true for many troops. But many troops DO go troop camping, and if they are doing it the "official Girl Scout way" they camp with their leaders and perhaps a chaperone or two. This starts as early as Brownies, so 2nd grade, in most cases. Certainly girls in grades 4 and 5 (Juniors) are not family camping where each girl has her parent along.

 

I have been on very pleasant Girl Scout camping trips (where we prepared the girls to do most of the work through practice and progression of skills) and I have been on some dreadful Cub Scout family camping trips, where boys ran around with no responsibility, and a passel of adults did all the work. Even with a good deal of planning, it just felt like there were too many adults around. What is the point of having all those parents come along on a camping trip for the boys?

I'm taking cubs camping this weekend, we don't take parents. Me, two assistants, a cook and 23 cubs aged 8 - 10yrs

Cheers

Gareth

A Couple of comments.

 

1) It is entirely possible for one set of folks on a committee to run multiple units. I've seen this with a SCOUTREACH program where the committee was the same for 3 or 4 different units, and I've seen it with A troop/crew combination. Is it easy, no people should really "wear one hat" (HAHAHAHA pot calling the kettle black )but it is possible and allowed by BSA

 

2) In some countries, that is how scouting is done, i.e. one committee supports all the units. If I remember correcetly, and one of our Brit members please tell me if I am wrong, A scout groups will consist of Cubs, Scouts, and Explorers. The group leadership is essentially a committee that supports the pack, troop, and crew. Some units have been around longer than some councils have been around.

 

3) Because of the small unit nature of GSUSA, their troops are essentially the size of BSA patrols, of course more activities can be done. BUT becasue they are so small, there is not enough room for everyone and some girls are denied the program.

This is indeed how we broadly operate. In my group 1st Westbury in common with most UK groups, we have a single committee, the group is headed by a Group Scout Leader. A young person joins the group at age 6 as a beaver scout, progresses to cubs at 8yrs, to scouts at 10 1/2yrs and then at 14, if the group supports an explorer unit becomes an explorer scout. Explorer units operate at district level rather than at group, although in rural and small towns the explorers tend to be formed around the scout groups.

Cheers

Gareth

Thanks for the upgrade, but like many others I cannot see any of the discussions in the program forum other than the two sub forums.

Cheers

Garety

"We have a cricket bat in the house and that is used in more murders than guns in Britain."

Er.. that would because virtually all firearms are illegal in here the UK, despite what the British press would have you believe, its very difficult to get hold of firearms here; it might be better to compare cricket bat with baseball bat crime.

Cheers

Gareth

"Battle of Roarke's Drift demonstrated how the most powerful army of its time could be defeated by "primitive" tribesmen using vastly inferior hand-weapons but vastly superior strategy"

Just a minor point, the British weren't defeated at Rorke's Drift, 150 soldiers of 24th Foot Regiment (now called the Royal Regiment of Wales) held off 3000-4000 Zulu warriors at the station in 1879.

Cheers

Gareth

The other thing to remember is to allow LOTS and LOTS of time to clear immigration at your port of entry; don't underestimate the fatigue levels before you even get in the car at the other end. I used to travel regularly to Miami from the UK, my employer would not allow us to drive upon arrival (or return) but insisted that we either got a taxi/chauffeur or spent the night at a hotel near to the airport. I know we all do it on holiday etc.. but you'll be responsible for scouts not just yourself.

Continental do a special charity ticket scheme but it is a bit of a lottery, the same with Virgin.

Cheers

Gareth

Cambridge,

I took a troop from the UK to NY in 2010, and encountered many of the same issues you are. My advice:

DON'T treat journey planning as if it is an Easyjet flight to Spain, find yourself a good specialist travel agent that you have easy access too. (local is always better as they wont want any bad publicity if things start to go wrong).

DON'T assume that the website price is the best deal you can get. Your agent should be able to do better. Some airlines do special charity rates that aren't published.

Look at indirect flights via Europe, changing at Schipol or Rome can be a lot cheaper.

INSURANCE - Use UNITY they do understand (Spent hours looking and re-looking at alternatives, having to explain what we wanted etc..)

lots of lessons learnt here ;-)

Gareth

www.1stwestbury.org.uk

Some bits seem to have been missed from the POR statement, the following also applies:

"no person volunteering their services should receive less favourable treatment on the basis of, nor suffer disadvantage by reason of:

age;

class;

ethnic origin, nationality (or statelessness) or race;

gender;

marital or sexual status;

mental or physical ability;

political or religious belief.

Note: Paedophilia is a bar to any involvement in the Scout Movement.

Note: With reference to religious belief, the avowed absence of religious belief is a bar to appointment to a Leadership position."

and from Religion in Scouting

"The Scout Association is not directly and immediately concerned with the religious education of its Members.

That responsibility is with the religious families to which the Members belong, although some sponsored Groups will have a more immediate responsibility towards their Members' religious development.

However, the purpose of The Scout Association includes 'to promote the spiritual potential of young people'. This responsibility is a fundamental part of The Scout Association and needs to be achieved through the programme, method and structure of Scouting.

There are two types of members: a Member and an Associate Member. Different roles require being a Member, such as a Leader or Commissioner.

Members

The Scout Association is a diverse organisation that welcomes Members from all backgrounds, as long as they are able to make their promise. Part of the promise 'To do my duty to God' requires that the person taking the promise believes in a higher being - this can be called 'God', 'Allah' or 'Dharma'. Therefore when we have new adult leaders we ask that they believe in a higher being so that they can help the young people under their care to fulfil the promise they make as Scouts.

Associate Members

Associate Members are adults support Scouting through other roles such as a section assistant or a skills instructor, and they don't have to take their Promise. As long as a person is happy to support the fundamentals of Scouting, including the religious policy, they can become Associate Members.

Young people

The purpose of Scouting is to contribute to the development of young people in achieving their full physical, intellectual, social and spiritual potentials.

We encourage young people to explore their beliefs and develop their spirituality. This process can happen in many ways, but especially through the Programme we deliver.

Our policy states that to be a youth member of The Scout Association, a young person is required to make the promise."

Cheers

Gareth

Approximately 1 = $1.50

And the patrol tents will last 30 years, the killer will be the cost of shipping they are heavy and the poles long.

You'll also need a groundsheet and to teach the young people not to touch the canvas if its raining, but I guess yo have to do that with the wall tents found at your scout camps

Cheers

Gareth

"They are generally round with a conical top."

Sorry but they're not, they look like your wall tents. These links will take you typical patrol tents;

http://www.blacksofgreenock.co.uk/acatalog/patrol-tents.html

http://shop.scouts.org.uk/c-76-group-tents.aspx

Cheers

Gareth

Being from the other side of the pond, I'll support the patrol tent. Nearly all of the camping under taken by my group uses patrol tents (and modern equivalents) for cubs, scouts and explorers. They encourage a patrol and community ethos in away a 2 man tent cant.

We have a real mixture of tents from expedition 2 man Guerber tents, though 5 man light weight tents, to Khyam 8 man canvas tunnel and ultimately good old fashioned Icelandic patrol tents (wall tents).

Having girls in the pack/troop does force you to think a bit more about setting up the patrols but ultimately it helps the patrols to gel together.

Cheers

Gareth

There are still many absolute monarchs in the world, Saudi, the UAE, Lesothto.

To answer the question about function. In one respect those are "by right" The armed forces are Her Majesties, not the governments or the peoples. The judicary act in her name, criminal cases are "Regina vs....." not the people vs. In some ways you are right the Queen is a figurehead, laws are created by parliament. The Queen cannot enter the House of Commons.

Fondness for the monarch, well politicans by their nature are devisive, a non political figure head takes that division away, although not always.

I suspect that our Canadian friends might be able to better explain, athough it may be case of they keep the monarchy because you don't.

Cheers

Gareth