LALeader

Boy you nailed them right. The Cubmaster went to council today and explained the situation. They recommended that it be resolved on a pack level. We are leaving them be. It is the best situation for the boys and the families. Next year the mom will put the boys in the separate dens - her main issue was avoiding this particular leader. (And just to clarify it is a tiger in a wolf den - the boys are 10 months apart in age.) They will only be together in the same den for a few months now. The issue was primarily not that the boys be together so the issue brought up earlier about will they expect scouts to bend the rules for them in the future - is not the point.

Another question - with new info learned about these particular leaders - if there is an active social service investigation regarding this husband/wife team and they are both registered leaders - is this our business / none of our business / a private family matter? Another leader in our pack brought this concern to our attention and we're not sure how to address it. The leaders in question believe it is a private family matter. I as a leader would like some assurance that the boys are protected. Two deep leadership would not be effective as they are both registered leaders in our pack.

And I completely agree that scouting is a blast without the adults that go around messing it up!

Thanks for the advice - it's SO appreciated! (And I'm off to Wood badge next weekend to learn more!)

I in no way went behind anyone's back - I explained that and the parent's reasons. Our CC is married to our UC?Tiger den leader. If they would have joined when our pack organized at the beginning of the year that would be one thing - I agree with you on a general policy basis of what boys belong where. Because this was a specific problem/issue is why it was discussed and adressed separately. The point being this adult's behavior.

Yes, thank you - I appreciate your advice on this. One of the problems I see is that he is liked (tolerated maybe?) at the Council level (he's UC) Here's an example of what I dealt with at the last leader meeting:

I had 2 new cubs interested in joining scouts. One should be a tiger, one a wolf. I am wolf den leader. The mother comes to me and says she really wants the boys to join and both in my den. She lists several reasons, one of convenience, the other that if her younger son has to join the tiger den she and her husband will not enroll him because the UC is also the tiger den leader. She doesn't trust him (she's known the family for several years) she doesn't like the reputation he has within the organization, etc. I just listen. I tell her I will talk to our cubmaster and get back to her. I talk to the cubmaster and the UC/tiger leader following our last pack meeting and I say that the parent for a variety of reasons (sparing the main one) the parent would like both boys to be in the wolf den. It is my feeling that we only have 3 more months of our year and that if it brings 2 new cubs to our program, I don't have a problem or issue with it. The cubmaster agrees completely and the UC shrugs his shoulders and walks away. I let the parent know all is well for the remainder of this year and that next year after she has experience in the program, perhaps she may want to split the boys into different dens. She's fine with that. I should mention that she was recruited by another one of my den families. So both boys join - they've attended meetings and now they are set to get their badges. At the leader meeting the UC's wife (our pack committee chair) blows a gasket - yells - that having this boy in my den is disrespecful to her - how come she doesn't know about this - etc. I calmly reply and explain the steps I took and the conversations I had. (all the time not revealing any of the reasons the parent has stated - just saying parent reasons) The cubmaster stands behind me 100%. I point out that the issue is the boys. The boys are happy - advancing, etc. The parents had them in a full uniform in 3 days after joining to participate in a den activity we did. She says she's taking the matter to council - I understand that is her right. The cubmaster says he will go to bat for these boys because he understands the parent's reasons. This was Tuesday - last night the mother calls me wondering why our awards chairperson (friend of the UC & PCC) called and said that it is highly unusual for both her sons to be in my den. Why is this and did at any time - me - the den leader suggest any negative reason that they should not be in the tiger den or say anything negative about the tiger den leader. Hello - are we in scouting or junior high? I explain to the mother what happened at the leader meeting and tell her I will keep her posted. I also want to say that after the meeting I went up to the PCC and apologized for her feeling disrespected and in no way was that my intention for her to feel that way. She screamed at me to get out of her face. (I don't know whether to be more upset that she reacted this way to another adult - be it a new den leader - or that she is trusted with our children.)

Thank you for your responses! It was wonderful to see that there is a support system here. I appreciate the advice!

The leaders are mixed - they've been in the organization for a long time. The majority feel that our pack would grow more without them because they are very unliked and not trusted. I've had parents tell me they won't join because of them. You can tell he's the kind of guy noone ever listened to and now he has a forum to stand up and talk and he never stops. I realize that they are here to stay and there is a place for everyone - I did explore talking with our DE and these are pack politics. Council stays out of it. One big issue - we had 2 new cubs join my den - wolf - one is in first grade and should be in tigers. This guy is the tiger leader and the parents absolutely do not want them in their den. They asked if there was any way that they could be together. Since there are only 3 months left in our year, I went to our cubmaster, explained the situation. We both felt that if it brought 2 new boys to the program, great. Next year they could be split. They are into their 2nd year waiting to join so their son wouldn't be exposed to him. The cubmaster and I talked with him - he didn't say he had a problem with it - they now have uniforms and are earning their badges. Now his wife has a problem with it (pack committee chair) and is taking the matter to council. It's selfish - the boys are the ones who are going to suffer.

I am a den leader (1st year) dealing with a major pack leader headache. We have a pack committee chair and a Unit commissioner who are married and creating all kinds of political crap in our pack. Tonight I was criticized because my boys are achieving their rank badges at blue and gold (no other den is). That's what I was taught at leader training - now my boys are being questioned???? I'm just upset looking for the magic advice that has worked for someone else who has come up against a brick wall in the past and was able to deal better with it than I am. This is a couple who is defined as 'having a heart of gold' but walks away with popcorn $$. He's paid back the money and now all is well. The parents are in an uproar because he won an award from council but no one trusts their kids with him. I try to stay away but their positions make it pretty impossible to work well with the pack.