Good Ole Buff

I agree that it would be difficult to get people in the Troop to help at an Eagle project if they dont know who you are and that could be an incentive but he wasnt planning on really inviting the Troop to help anyway. He knows he isnt required to have Scout help so he was going to rustle it up somewhere else. I told him it was his project and it is his right to do that but we have chewed a lot of the same dirt together and we feel like we have a lot of time and interest invested in helping him do the best he can. We want to be there to support him (and to make sure the project goes well). I talked to him about the hundreds of man hours (adults and boys) of teaching and support we have invested so he could have the opportunity to make this achievement in his life possible. I didnt think a little of the guilt card would hurt either. Mia coupa. I think he was responsive to at least considering the idea.

We are going to talk again next week. He is a pretty hard nut but so are most teenagers (at least mine are). I just wanted to know how his thoughts and actions were addressed by Scout Spirit and must admit Im still a little confused.

Hairy cow? You must be confusing this stately, beautiful animal with something else! The buffalo is a proud, noble beast. The mere mention of the name congers up thoughts of the vast and wild American west, majestic power, and thundering hooves. The lowly beaver, on the other hand, was chosen to represent..well, give me a minute and Im sure I can think of something appropriate. They made great hats at one time I understand. :-)

Seriously, I appreciate your comments. I have always had a bit of a problem with kids that have come back at the last minute to complete their Eagle because they finally realize that it will mean something in their life down the road. But I was able to get over those initial feelings and help those young men because they had been very active in Scouting from a very young age, completed all their requirements as stated by BSA and I knew they had Scout Spirit in their lives. This young man wants the benefits but could really care less about Scouting as a whole and has actually said hell be glad when he gets his Eagle because hell be out of here. We have a very active, boy run program of about 60 Scouts that has produced 18 Eagle Scouts in the last four years. Eagle Scouts that tend to stay involved in the program. Its not unusual to have 7 or 8 of these young men come home from college and join us on campouts still so maybe I have become a little spoiled. I know it's not fair to judge him by them. Everyone is an individual and I think he will probably come to appreciate it later on but we dont possess a crystal ball and Im still having a hard time with his attitude in the here and now.

Ill keep giving this kid positive pressure. I just needed a way to vent and get other views. Thanks!

Thanks to you for the reply. I guess I do get a little hung up and I agree that it should be a far wider lens. I have been trying to take that view more and more and convince the hard cases in my Troop of the same. Scouting is a small part of the whole, as you have said probably 1% or less. On the other hand I have a hard time extrapolating the benefits of the Scout Law in his everyday life without a full consideration of it in his Scouting life especially when BSAs own definitions cover both. Does his everyday life take president over Scouting because he spends most of his time outside of Troop & Patrol activities? There is an argument there that I can see and appreciate but I think you get into trouble when we place percentages on them that BSA has not put in there. They dont say his everyday life meaning Scouting is such a small percentage that what he does there is inconsequential and is outweighed by his outside activities. Outside should weigh more, but at the total expense of Scouting? I will continue to talk to this young man and his family and encourage him.

You all have been very helpful and I appreciate your advice. I have read the forum for a long time and am glad I took the plung.

Just to be clear it is not attendance that is the issue but his attitude of every man for himself. As I stated before, I understand that attendance and Scout spirit, as defined in the handbook, is what it is as related to everyday life. That is something that has taken YEARS for me to come to grips with and awhile to sink into my skull. I have also researched the 12 a lot to see what the official definitions are and was surprised that, while a lot of Troop sites will proudly list them, many dont define them so, to help answer the question of what part of the law I think he not living up to, here are five of the 12 directly from the national site, their definitions, not ours:

A Scout is Trustworthy. A Scout tells the truth. He keeps his promises. Honesty is a part of his code of conduct. People can always depend on him. (How can people depend on someone that is not there and is only in it for what he needs?)

A Scout is Loyal.

A Scout is true to his family, friends, Scout leaders, school, Nation, and world community. (It may be a small percentage overall but loyalty to Scouting is in there)

A Scout is Helpful.

A Scout is concerned about other people. He willingly volunteers to help others without expecting payment or reward. (Doesnt that include the Troop? He is looking for the highest reward Scouting has to offer, the Eagle rank, without a willingness to volunteer to help others attain the same goal.)

A Scout is Friendly.

A Scout is a friend to all. He is a brother to other Scouts. He seeks to understand others. He respects those with ideas and customs that are different from his own. (You would have to be present at Scout functions, even sporadically, to be a brother to other Scouts and how does it show brotherhood when you are just in it for yourself?)

A Scout is Kind.

A Scout understands there is strength in being gentile. He treats others as he wants to be treated. He does not harm or kill anything without reason. (If we treated him the way he wants to treat the other members of the Troop, would he ever reach his goal?)

I appreciate all the input and look forward to hearing and learning more.

I really appreciate your input and experience. This is a 15 year old that has met every requirement for Eagle, including a leadership position, except his project. He has no interest in Scouts except for getting the rank that he knows will help him down the road and is vocal that once he gets his, he is out (at least he is being honest about his motivation). I have also have read with interest and agree that Scout spirit is what Scout spirit is, nothing more and nothing less but how can his attitude be consistent to living the law and oath in your everyday life. I want the rewards and dont bother me with anything else. Ive got mine now you get yours. Regardless of how active he has been in his Scouting life, this bothers me. I like this kid and have never given up on a Scout (Lord knows I have wanted to). Hes bright, a little shy, and probably going through the same demands that pull every Scout at his age. We have talked to his parents and we have talked to him and he is just not interested. Maybe he is getting a little of the message because he did show up for the meeting last night and we had a good long talk.

I've read with great pains comments on both Scout Spirit and attendance and agree we should not add or subtract from what the handbook describes both to be. I have a young man that has been absent for about a year that is coming back to get his Eagle. Great! I'm all for that will help him anyway I can. He will not participate in meetings except to show up to talk about his project and has said he is only coming now to get his Eagle, then he is out of here. Knowing what I know it is still hard to say this is living according to the law and oath. Is he active? Yep, he's chartered so he is active. Does he have Scout Spirit by living his life according to the Scout law & oath? ..