faithhopelovep91

My DE called this morning after I included him in an email to members of the CO. He wanted to hear what happened, but basically didn't care. His only concern is that he doesn't lose my boys' (money). There's nothing he can do, and now I wish he hadn't asked what happened. He once again blamed me for lack of parental involvement, but then offered to let me either join a different Pack or START MY OWN. Go figure! I guess he doesn't care as long as I pay charter and registration fees.

My husband doesn't really want to start a new Pack, but since his Granddad is Pastor of a Church (potential CO) I asked him to think about it for a couple of months. There are probably threads about this, but I thought I'd throw you great folks the question. I'm not exactly a newbie, but what do I need to know if we do start a new Pack? We would have bylaws which every parent and leader signs. Everyone would have to take on at least one responsibility from day one even if it's Pinewood Derby. Starting out, I feel parental attendance should be mandatory. Beyond den happenings, what things would we need to know/do right off the bat? Thanks!

Well, it's over. The parents of Troop AND PACK were either staying in the kitchen with CC where she gets boys signed in and collects dues, or they went back to the room where SM meets. I thought they were going to confront me, but apparently that's not what they had in mind. I had decided to cancel den activities planned for tonight, and only hand out patches and certificates from camp, thank the parents who went, etc. We played hangman as they trickled in, very late. One other DL mom (the one who canceled camp for her four family members and then went to CC's busines the DAY OF camp and signed back up) kept popping in and out. She told us "SM wants the parents for something"....she does have a Scout so that was normal. But when she came back and hubby asked her "what happened" she got defensive and acted confused, saying he was setting up a TV. Myself, my husband, and right-hand-DL decided to take the boys to the playground since nothing was happening yet, but when we walked past the window where all the parents were gathered, my husband couldn't take it. He wouldn't "babysit" their kids while they talked about his wife. When we returned, the SM's HS-aged son was bringing the Scouts outside to walk around the church. So, the meeting was getting started. We told the Cubs to find their mom or dad.

CC, 'committee mom', and 'assistant chef' were all in the kitchen, and commented that we came back fast. I placed all the Pack craft materials, etc from my house on the counter, handed a pack of papers to 'committee mom' (remember she announced that CC asked her to be CM at camp) and said "I heard your the one to give this to." My husband got the boys attn and said "She's in charge now", pointing to committee mom. He couldn't resist adding "If you don't know who she is, that's Ms. ____", since she never did anything with the dens, the boys didn't know who she is. Committee mom looked "caught", didn't say a word, but to ask "what's this?", and I told her what the papers were. Assistant Chef looked utterly shocked, and CC looked mad. She said "we need to talk about this". I said "not now", and left. I wish I'd said a proper goodbye to the boys, but I had to go.

I'm really sad right now, but since the weight is lifted from my back, I feel I can grieve these last 3.5 yrs. The son of 'assistant chef' who is related to committee mom and I was wary of from the beginning (she joined a month ago) hugged me at random at least twice in the 1/2 hr he was there with me. I'm getting teary now so I'm going to end this.

Thank you all again for your help in this. I could NOT have gotten through this day without you!

Thanks Twocubdad. They should not have gone behind our backs to invite Webelos.

Speaking of going behind backs....as mentioned in the novel, a surprise meeting was sprung on me back in Sept. And my worst fears for tonight seem to be coming true - THE AMBUSH. My right-hand-DL has been asking around to find out more about tonight. She talked to SM several times to see if she needs to bring anything. She finally found out from HER HUSBAND that he was sworn to secrecy by the SM to NOT TELL HER THAT THE CC HAD CALLED A MEETING OF TROOP AND PACK TO DISCUSS WHAT HAPPENED AT THE CAMPOUT. CC & SM did not tell ME (CM) or my husband either. I even tested CC last night and called her to see if she could let me into the church early tonight to set up. She couldn't do 45 mins early, but said maybe 30 mins early. BTW SM always had keys to the church as CM, but now supposedly the church is not giving out any more keys.

The Pack was brought home early from Camporee due to severe Sickle Cell Anemia Pain Crisis, and Steele Disease pain from 2/4 of our present-camping leaders. The 4th leader caravanned home with Steele Disease parent, leaving myself and husband (Sickle Cell) to bring 3 home unattended children early from camp.

The parent who I believe is stirring up all these problems is the 'committee mom' who sabotaged the Pack campout by taken on all the responsibility for food and cooking, then camping with the Troop, and leaving us to fend for ourselves. Thankfully my right-hand-DL came at the last minute and took committee mom's job. Committee mom tried to get me to leave a Bear behind with the Troop because he rode with her to camp. I didn't think that would end well for me, so I took all unattended Cubs home. All parents were notified prior to leaving camp.

NOTE: The SM (old CM) brought us all home early from last years Camporee due to rain. The parents were all packed up with the cars on the side of the road waiting for me to let the kids go from activities! But he's now ringleader of the ambush, overheard saying things like "we paid for the whole weekend but she brought them home early".

I'm really sad and scared. We're leaving our 3 Cubs and 1 brand new Scout (he crossed over at Camporee but no one told me he was particpating) at home with Grandma tonight, along with their 2 little sisters. My husband will be videotaping the whole thing. Maybe I will post some youtube vids for you all to see the bloodbath.

Oh, and YES LOTS of "paper only" adult leaders throughout the years. I'm glad that bothers somebody else. This is going to sound selfish, but for a long time I silently bore not only the burden of 3 dens, but having to put on an act in Pack meetings, and at district events that everything was fine and dandy. The reality was I was taking abuse and pretending it wasn't happening. Our pack is a lie.

Presently, we have 14 boys regularly attending Pack meetings. A few others re-registered, but haven't been around since Christmas break.

Scoutnut - Our Camporee was set up with separate activities for Tiger, Wolf, Bear, and Scouts. Webelos, no matter whether they were camping with Pack or Troop could participate in either activities, with the proper adult leaders, of course. Our issue was, I found out that Webelos parents had been directly invited by either CC or SM to camp with the Troop. I didn't know anything about it, and neither did my husband, the Webelos DL. My husband would have gladly camped his Den with the Troop if asked.

Yes, the entire Pack has ALWAYS met together, every week. As I mentioned in the novel, when SM (old CM) was trying to run both Troop and Pack, we had ALLLLL boys in the same room. There was one small room off to the side that the Scouts or Webelos would use part of the meeting. In the last month or so, I've gotten enough parents to participate regularly to have the boys come in and go straight to their Den's table, to finally break up the monotony. Back when it was just CM and me most of the time, despite our desperate need for help, CM's regular mantra was "you can't make anybody do anything".

My husband and I have only been to the first training. I did some kind of youth protection training online (and others). I'm not sure if that's the same as some of you mentioned. Our district has a bit of trouble holding BALOO often enough. My right-hand-DL has had BALOO and more.

wingnut - You had my husband and I cracking up! I am going to do precisely what you suggest, except that I can not work under people who I feel have conspired against me. I don't know if anyone will understand that completely. I guess I've just held in way too much all these years, and if I give up, it will be completely. The animosity toward me has been growing since I WAS DL (all 3 at the same time). If I can't successfully implement positive changes in the Pack, I have to leave. I have chosen to put up with this mess this long, but I can't accept it. My husband has been asking me for nearly the entire I've been there why I keep trying to change things when it's obviously a waste. I HATE that the Cubs get swept away with my wasted efforts. The boy 'committee mom' wanted to keep with her at camp heard my husband and I saying as we left camp that we can't do this any more, and we need to leave and let them have it their way. He sadly asked "so you won't be there any more?". I feel really, really bad.

Due to your collective, wonderful help, I am at as much peace as I'll ever be about leaving the Pack. If something goes down tonight, we will resign immediately and get the heck out.....after videotaping anything juicy. If nothing happens, we'll have a few days to gather our thoughts, then resign. My husband wants to send a notarized, certified letter to the COR, Pastor, DE, maybe more, letting them know basically we don't know what's going on, but it's a mess, and we strongly suggest doing their own audit of the bank account.

Wow! Thank you everyone for your responses. Sadly, as much stress and tears this Pack has caused me, I really didn't expect a unanimous "get out now". This kills me.

Lisabob, I like the letter idea. I guess I will wait and see what, if anything, happens tonight, then get started on that.

Greaves that's what really kills me the most, that they can/will/are blaming me for things that really aren't my fault. Whether I leave or not, I want the truth known. I honestly don't know if the COR is dirty. CC told me she has permission to forge his signature - I assume that's true. But, I know some members of that church (CO), many of whose children used to take gymnastics lessons from me, would listen.

Beavah, my husband, who is usually rather intuitive, has smelled something fishy with money from the beginning. Mostly because the CC's only regular function is to collect and deposit our money (reg, popcorn, et). And there seem to be ZERO checks and balances. No one else can request bank statements or anything. The old CM did keep dues. Hubby thinks she's either taking it or 'borrowing'. At one point her business was really struggle. I'm really not totally convinced. It would explain why they'd want to make me so miserable I leave. I ask too many questions and don't just leave things they want CC and SM want it. What I think is CC wants to keep me at enough of a distance from the money that she's using the other's disdain (whether that's racism or whatever) for me to keep me frustrated. She's as sweet as can be to my face....

Could anyone specifically address the Webelos camping with Troop issue? I know they're allowed to, but should the Webelos DL or myself (CM) have been contacted first? The wording for our Camporee was "Webelos dens may camp with Troop".

Thanks again everyone. You've brightened my day. And Hubby's really hoping I'll listen to ya =)

I'm getting a lot off my chest here. If you don't like novels, skip to the next post. =D

I'm currently in my 4th year of Cub Scouting, all with the same Pack. During my 3 years as a DL, I was often frustrated by lack of help from parents. I spent most of those years as Tiger, Wolf, and Bear DL (all 3), while the CM was Webelos DL. I also grew weary of almost begging the CM to allow me to run the dens according to the handbooks. The joke between my husband and I is that when the previous CM was in charge all we did was eat and play bingo....perhaps because that was the only way to get the parents to show up, but that doesn't really help much.

Anyway, by default I became CM this year, as the CM replaced the SM at our CO, and our Pack had NO other leaders other than my husband who helped me. I thought it odd when the DE congratulated me loudly at MAY '09 roundtable "so, you're going to be the new CM huh?!". I had NO idea, but played along to save the CM embarrassment, assuming he'd forgotten to tell me. I DID know the SM was leaving, but the CM and CC never mentioned any change in the Pack. I now believe that he didn't want to tell me, and wanted to play both roles, since Sept-Dec was basically a tug-of-war between him and myself over the CM position. I found out the CC's name had been put on as CM though I KNOW the elderly, handicapped lady had no intention of taking on new responsibilities. The new recruits and their families thought he was "in charge" since he had his Troop meet same time/place/room as the Pack always did, lead opening ceremony every week, and generally commanded the room until he told them to "go with Mrs. ____ (me)". After a couple weeks the SM and I had it out on the phone. He told me everything from the Pack can't do any activity that costs money, to the CM ANSWERS TO SM!! I got in trouble from SM and CC for charging a minimal fee ($5 maybe) on a local campout. Apparently it's written in invisible stone that we never charge for local campouts. However, I had NO-ZERO money to work with, not even dues. SM was COLLECTING AND RATIONING PACK DUES. This all led to a meeting between myself (CM), CC, and SM.....so I thought. I brought along my right-hand DL, the ONLY parent besides my husband and I who was helping, and her husband. Rightfully so, as I showed up and the CC's husband was there, along with SM, and two other parents, one of whom was brand new and had been to training, the other may be trained, had been there a couple years, never lifted a finger, but was now a committee member. Our pack NEVER had a active committee other than other CC who's only job was to handle ALL THINGS MONEY. I couldn't understand why I wasn't told who else was coming to the meeting OR TO BRING MY TWO DL'S, even though the inactive mom, and freshly trained dad was invited! I'd never met the COR until recently quite by accident. Thankfully, I found out I had an ally in the CC's husband, a kind, elderly gentleman. He said Troop and Pack need to be separate and kept repeating "YOU ARE CUBMASTER". He is a committee member now. Oh, and I had to INSIST that the SM be removed as a committee member from the Pack. I didn't think he could even be BOTH.

SM continued to meet in the same room as Pack, call and email Pack parents, and told me to include him in all emails I sent out (I didn't), wouldn't give much advice except to tell me when I did something "wrong". OH, and he was still COLLECTING AND RATIONING PACK DUES!! I had to fight tooth and nail to have our first ever REAL popcorn kickoff - myself, husband, and right-hand-DL. The DE appointed popcorn chair did NOTHING but come to the district meeting and donate a few items for adult prizes. I was RIPPED a new one for spending $40 on the kickoff. This was because they had given me that money for my campout food. But, if I had asked for kickoff money they claimed they would have given it. BUT IT ALL CAME FROM THE SAME PLACE. DE told me I didn't do anything wrong. Things went on this way until Christmas break when the CC's husband, came to my aid again and told his wife (CC & friends with SM) to make the SM (old CM) moved the Troop down the hall, and they (SM and CC) started giving me the Pack dues with receipts.

I've never really had much interaction with Pack parents as most never stayed for the meeting, but I would hear about things said, and received nasty looks and comments which I ignored, mostly because I was running like a chicken with her head cut off, running 2-3 dens at once. My husband (who is black) said their behavior may be because I'm white and all of the pack except the CC is black. I should add we're in Mississippi. I was never sure but figured that was better than them having a legitimate reason for being upset with me. During the surprise meeting the SM tried to throw mud on me by saying that I don't get along with the parents, referencing only one incident from 2+ yrs previously where a mom had disrupted a campout by camping in her SUV with her son, and watching movies, leaving me, THE ONLY ACTIVE PARENT other than the CM (now SM), to shoo them away and explain why the one scout could watch movies but they couldn't -- they weren't even allowed to bring electronics! I asked the CM several times "are they really going to stay in their car...and you're allowing that". Somehow it got back to her that I "talked about her", and it got back to me that she was MAD. Years later, at the surprise meeting, SM threw mud by saying I made her so mad "she wanted to beat you up". NO ONE IN THE WHOLE MEETING SAID ANYTHING ABOUT THAT BEING EXTREMELY INAPPROPRIATE, both for the mom to say and the SM to repeat - he's old enough to be my father.

I never felt like things have been right - something's funny. When CM-now SM moved up to the Troops, the PACK bank account became a SHARED account. I have not been able to get anyone to tell me how much money is in the account or how much belongs to the Pack. The ONLY thing I've needed money for since popcorn is Camporee last week. CC only told me that we "should have enough". We brought in $2,100 (our cut of sales), and supposedly get $250 every year from Walmart. There also is money from a car accident last year which my ins paid $600 to fix the Pack trailer - it was never fixed. CO gave us $400 for new trailer tires - as far as I know, a year later, not replaced. Anyway, Camporee and Re-charter are the only costs that have come from the account this year. Camporee cost $209 exactly, and Recharter was $440. Food for Camporee was supposed to be roughly $200, which brings me to my latest odd occurrence.

Since January things have been a bit better, except for our annual dramatic decline in attendance due to sports etc. Most started coming back in time for Camporee this past weekend, for which we had 100% Pack participation, and our BEST parent participation EVER in my 3.5 yrs with the Pack. I even had the non-active committee member mom who showed up to the surprise meeting actually take COMPLETE control of the camp food. In a Camporee meeting with several now-more-active parents, CC, and myself, I was nicely prodded to delegate more responsibility. It's a running joke that I can't delegate....but that's rather difficult when exactly NO parents come to meetings. I digress... The Committee Member mom had already met with me and another mom at my home to plan the menu. My exact words at the group meeting, for all to hear were "alright, it's all yours. i won't give another thought to the food, EXCEPT TO SHOW UP AND EAT IT". Everyone was happy! She was told by myself and CC to pick another parent to assist her, and they would have no other responsibilities at camp. She showed up at the Pack campsite with plenty of food, drinks, plates, etc. Then, disappeared for so long I asked if anyone knew where she was. It turned out, though the pack had paid her reg for Camp, and she was quite explicitly to be in charge of the "kitchen", she was camping with the Troop, and her son, a Webelos. ----This brings me to another topic for a moment. I found out via parents that 2/3 Webelos were camping with the Troop. My husband, Webelos DL, and myself CM were never asked or informed until the day before.---- Anyway, the short of it is she ditched us, stayed with the Troop 99% of the time, going around with them to their activities. My saving grace was my right-hand-DL decided to come on the campout at the last minute, I ran into her in a store on my way out of town. She had taken several weeks off due to illness, but agreed to come with her family - her son is a Scout, and nephew is a Webelos for whom she was responsible, so they all camped with the Troop. The committee member mom showed up at our camp very late to start breakfast, basically did nothing, then disappeared. We missed assembly. My right-hand-DL, and the original chef assistant (relative of Committee mom who was ticked at her) handled that kitchen, kept us all fed and happy. Things didn't go as planned (drank fruit loops out of a cup), but we all had a blast anyway. Due to the chef assistant having a Steele Disease, and my husband's Sickle Cell disease, the cold temps the first night were unbearable - excruciating pain! We all decided to head home after activities. Steele Disease mom (assistant chef) decided without telling me to leave several hours later, with the only other in-camp parent in caravan, leaving only my husband and I with our 3, and 4 other boys with no parents), so we all packed up after lunch. Well, this nearly causes WWIII as committee mom tries to start a fight - never said a thing to my face, but through others said I should leave behind one of the cubs because he rode with her. I was not okay with this because I didn't want to get in trouble. We had already called his mom and she was fine. I was taking this boy and two others home (the 4th had parents on the way and after what was said we waited the 30 mins til they got there). During this time I found out the dad who, with his Webelos, rode to camp with my family....but had decided to camp with the Troop, was livid with me because he didn't understand that he was not abandoned, but would take another available seat in our massive carpool. ::sigh:: As my right-hand-DL found out later he wanted to get home before Sunday when cigarette and liquor stores would be closed!!! He had a parent bring him black and milds at the campsite and the SM heard him 'order'. I managed to leave camp and get all the Cubs delivered safely to parents, but was promptly called by the Grandma who brings the Cub committee mom wanted to keep, to meetings to ask why I brought him home since he rode with 'committee mom'. I explained that the whole Pack came home, and I was responsible for them. During the group meeting prior to camp when I gave committee mom kitchen duty, CC and I also agreed that she was "surrogate mom" to this cub and one other who had no parent attending. BUT, this was when we thought she was actually camping with us. Remember, she had basically NO contact with the Pack for the 24 hrs we were there, and did NOT cook as was her responsibility. I heard from my right-hand-DL, still with the Troop, that she was telling people that CC had already ASKED HER to be CM, and when she's CM she'll do it better than me. This woman has never even been DL! I will add I told CC several months ago that I may be moving in the near future, but nothing has been said to me about finding a replacement, and it the move was never a sure thing. SM was talking about how "we paid for the whole weekend and she took them home early"...when he brought us home early last year because of rain. I guess rain is more serious than Sickle Cell or Steele Disease! At last year's Camporee I was the only parent doing ANYTHING with the kids, taking them around to activities. I basically TOLD a dad to go with Webelos who were in a different group. Anyway, back to this year. SM also told the Troop that the parents of the kids I took home were going to call and curse me out....again, is this sort of thing acceptable to repeat this to the group??

Another note, parents still think for some reason that they should go to CC or SM with concerns that should be brought to me. I had one mom cancel all 4 paid family members, then go visit CC at her business to discuss her boys going without parents. The lady doesn't have a car, and talks to me all the time....why would she tell me they're not going, then go to CC a couple hours later. I wouldn't have known to put them on the camp roster if I hadn't happen to call CC!

Lastly, my right-hand-DL now tells me the SM called and told her husband to tell her to be sure to come to tomorrow night's meeting, and to tell her two family members in the Troop and Pack to be sure to be there. We don't know if he made a mistake in inviting the Pack parent. She and my husband seem to think an ambush lies in store for me tomorrow. My husband will have a video camera ready just in case - for evidence to show DE....though he has basically abandoned me already (told me to do a bunch of things including tell CC to make a separate bank account, then when I reported back to him, he said there's nothing he can really do; they were only suggestions....made me look like an idiot). We'll just pretend that we're taping our planned certificate/patch ceremony for Camporee campers and adults.

From the beginning of this year, we have suspected that money is being stolen due to CC and SM's keeping dues from me, and the fact that no one but CC seems to know what's going on in bank account. The facts:

-CC claims there is a reason the CO won't allow us to have separate accounts for the troop/pack....but remember, this is a new thing this year. The old SM had a separate account. She repeatedly would not tell me what the reason is.

-Names on bank account according to CC: CC, CC's son, several past CM's who allegedly aren't in town any more. CC claims SM (old CM) is no longer on the account. I think the COR is on there too. I believe it takes two signatures on a check.

-CC will never tell me how much money is in there. She did tell me that there should be just enough for awards left in account after re-charter and Camporee. By my calculations, there is approx $1300 left that is not earmarked for trailer repairs/tires. Are the awards for 12 boys going to cost that much???

My husband thinks I can request an audit from Council. Does anyone know if that's true? I've driven my husband nuts saying I'm going to quit, and then I just can't bring myself to desert the boys. I'm a home school mom of 6, with 3 of my own Cubs, and one Scout...all I want to do is run a good program for the boys. My husband doesn't understand why I stay around and take the abuse, but he sticks with me as Webelos DL faithfully. I just really wish this insanity would end and the pack could be peaceful. I'm going to go tomorrow, pretending like nothing happened, and I know absolutely nothing, deliver my awards, and den activities planned --- I still plan everything for my DL's w/ help from my right-hand-DL who should be assist CM, but CC and SM don't like her. CC's husband says she's rightfully ACM. I'm just happy to have a whopping 4 of them there to help me now!! We'll see what happens tomorrow night...... In the meantime, any words of wisdom for me? Anyone been in a similar situation???

Anyone who reads this, please say a prayer for our pack. Ask God to shine a light on the truth. Let everything be known and in the open. Thank you!!

Thank you all so much for your advice.

Honestly, I don't even know what a Unit Commissioner is.....but I'll be finding out! lol

I didn't know that we had a committee either. I know of only one person besides the CM; am elderly woman volunteers and comes to all our meetings. She handles the money and popcorn. But I will check into that to see if we can get some money raised for pack t-shirts or something.

LisaBob, you've given me some great ideas. I will try to implement some of them.

Our pack always meets together. I believe we have about 20 boys. I think my den is supposed to have at least 6 boys. I don't know anyone in the den well at all, not even DLs. Besides myself there are 4 other trained DLs. Two are the daughters of life-long hard-core BOYscout leaders (don't know actual titles). When they show up they're fantastic. The other two, I don't really know their stories, but I'm often the only DL to show up, as was the case this week. I strongly suspect that's because we feel useless - I do anyway. I feel like we are one big waste of delegated responsibility.

I realized today, after the Christmas program practice at church that I don't only have this problem at scouts. I am from a whole other world it seems. I moved from S. Florida to Mississippi. In most aspects I love living here and greatly prefer it to the busy life in FL. However, very often the slower pace of life here seems to inevitably lead to being satisfied with less. Sometimes that's good - when you simply can't have it any other way. It just kills me to know what potential for fun and learning the BSA program holds, and that our pack is just content to never realize it.

I honestly don't think that I will ever see much change. Most likely I will scout out other packs for next year. But, if I don't find anything better, I will just find something else to do with my time. I don't want to fight with anybody, but I also just can't bring myself to settle for far less than we could have, when it is within our reach to obtain so much more. I plan to move half-way across the country in 2-3 years and maybe I'll find a better pack there.

I love the cub scout program so much! Thank you all for taking the time to help me out! I appreciate you.

Erin

Thank you all for the responses and great ideas!

I think my CM knew deep down he was wrong for the hitting, because he was squirming when I told him that had to stop. It only happened one day to my knowledge. But he waved the ruler around in front of the parents and said maybe he'll have to bring it with him camping. Some of the parents snickered. It boiled my blood. Where I'm from you wouldn't think of laying a hand on someone else's kid for fear of a lawsuit. Besides that, it's just not necessary.

I've asked many times to have a fundraiser specifically for uniforms, but the CM doesn't feel that's important. Do I have to have his permission? =)

Beavah, when I said what I said about the mom camping in her car, it wasn't so much about the mom, but rather that the CM was once again letting someone do whatever they felt like (but I didn't say it like that). My hope was that the CM hearing my very apparent shock and amazement would push him in the right direction for the future. And I found out that she went on campouts all last year, in a tent. Honestly, I never would have considered talking to the mom myself. I have no authority beyond the work I do with the boys on their achievements in meetings. The parents don't participate and I don't know any of them. I wish things were different, but unfortunately, it never crossed my mind.

I really don't want to "ditch" the boys that I've gotten to know in this group, but I'm really thinking that it might be for the best to start a new pack, or at least join another one. I hate to give up on anything, but maybe it's best to leave before I get in too deep. If I stay I have to be willing to accept things the way they are with only hopes of a better future. I'm praying for a sign!

Thanks again to all,

Erin

I forgot to mention one other problem I have with our pack is that we do not have "pack meetings" as I was instructed to at training, nor do we have leader meetings. Our pack meets together every single week, before splitting up into dens. But we never do skits or sing songs or anything like that. Is it normal and acceptable not to?

I'm a mother of 6 and a 2nd year wolf/bear DL in Greenville, Mississippi. I use the title loosely though. Our pack did so little last year, I went to training again because I couldn't remember what I was supposed to do.

Our CM will not require much of anything from the parents, for fear of them leaving. His philosphy is "at least they're here". The boys don't have books or uniforms. The uniforms I understand as we are a pretty small, poor town. But books don't cost very much and the boys are not getting any achievements done at home. The CM confirmed that he expects me get all their achivements done in the den meetings, although the books clearly say otherwise. I am unable to do much of anything fun with the boys since we're trudging through achivements in our meeting. The CM dismissed my concerns by telling me all the things that the boys had already done. Like on the campout......they made difference stick configurations for fires, hiked, and fished. Hiking is a bear requirement, but I don't think the others are. He told me that my boys satisfied their cooking achievement because we made popcorn balls............. yeah.

A parent in my den is very angry with me, although I don't think I've ever spoken directly with her. At a campout, I expressed the opinion to the CM and other DLs (and I admit it's possible another parent or two heard) that I found it shocking that she and her son were sleeping in their suv and that I didn't think they should be doing that. I feel strongly that the boys should all participate in the same activiities, together, and that was my point. In addition to sleeping in the suv, they drove to the very nearby bathroom, the mom drove behind the rest of us to the fishing spot, and watched a movie before bed while I shooed all the rest of the boys away from their windows, back to "camping". I only became aware of her anger toward ME when the CM explained to me why she was rude to HIM over a week later during a pack discussion of Christmas activities. All this seems like such a big deal, yet the CM told me not to even appologize to her, and to just let it blow over. I believe if she's THAT angry that this issue needs to be resolved and not shoved under a rug. But I guess that would violate the CM's philosphy.

The CM and I have only resolved one issue, and that happened when he agreed to stop hitting the boys with a ruler. At least two parents had given him permission to do so, one being a relative. That is common practice in the public schools here, which is why I decided to homeschool. My son, who had the highest GPA in all of 2nd grade was threatened with the ruler once for answering a question wrong! The CM already knew my stand on that from a lengthy conversation we had about the teachers. It was explained to me by the principal as a "cultural difference". This is a bit off subject, but sheds some extra light on my dilema.

The boys miss out on a lot of things because the CM fears their parents will leave. We settle for less, just to have a larger crowd; quantity over quality The boys missed out on being in the Christmas parade because last year afterward half of the boys didn't return. I thought that was because they had a bad experience. However it is supposedly common knowledge in our pack that some parents will do that, even buying a uniform just for the parade, so that they can be seem by their friends and family, only to quit after. Sadly, that is the mentality I've found since moving here from Florida.

There is a possibility of the CM taking the SM's place next year and I let him know that I would be happy to become CM if he decides to. He and I have peacefully discussed our differences and he is aware that I would run things quite differently. I told him that if things stayed as they were, I would likely start another pack at the church my in-laws started. He basically told me not to stress over things i.e. be happy to underachieve, that I would run everyone off as CM, and not to start my own pack because it would be exactly the same since all packs pretty much are.

Am I missing something or is this all wrong? I see this as any other activity a child would be a part of. Parents pay a lot more money for many sports, yet have to adhere to far more strict rules than we are requiring our parents to comply with, and almost for free! What should I do?

Erin