Eagle_SM

Twocubdad:

I cannot take the time to elaborate as much as I would like to right now (as i am getting ready for a Labor Day vacation), but I do not believe that the situation you describe is even remotely parallel to the situation between these two boys. First, it was obvious teasing between two boys who are part of a generation that almost constantly uses sexual references as a form of taunting, not as an invitation sexual conduct as adults would. Another example of this phenomenon is a T----Twister. Boys do this to each other all the time, but try this with an adult woman and it would definitely be considered sexual. Second, these two boys knew each other and almost certainly understood that this was a joke (though one that went too far). This wasn't some random act done to a random person.

OGE:

My point (and i think Ed's too) is that this was a sexual REFERENCE, but it was not done with a sexual PURPOSE or INTENT (there is a difference). The main meaning behind the statements and actions was not to make a sexual advance (as is the case with sexual misconduct), but simply to be a bully.

You also said "Even without the perceived sexual references, the older scout denied the younger scouts access to the younger scouts property. That alone should earn him some type of corrective action" This I agree with. The sexual stuff needs to be addressed and punished also, but not to the extent that some in this forum would have. In my opinion, he was just being a bully. Granted he went way over the line, but he was not making actual sexual advances with the intent of something actually happening, so I don't see this as something that deserves being kicked out of the troop for.(This message has been edited by Eagle_SM)

I have been reading this board for several months now, and have decided that it is time to step in...

First, I agree with yaworski in that this is one of those "boys will be boys" encounters, the older boy just trying to get a rise out of the younger boy. Boys will often use anything remotely sexual (particularly homosexual) for the subject of such comments for the simple reason that they tend to get the most immediate and strongest reaction. Just as acco40 said, the boys of this generation call each other "gay" as an insult, not as a proposition. From what I got out of the situation, the older boy was not actually making sexual advances to the younger, but rather using the sexual context (and the sexual insecurities that all boys of that age feel) to sort of pick a verbal fight with the younger. Just as our class bullies picked on someone for being fat, or wearing glasses, this generation of youth use sexual connotations to do the same. This probably has something to do with the open-ness of our society with sex in general.

Don't get me wrong - I am not trying to defend the older boy's actions. I believe that this bullying should be punnished, but not to the extent of removal from the Troop. From what I can pick up from the text (I don't know this for sure since I wasn't there), the younger boy wasn't actually intimidated all that much - he seemed to be more concerned with getting his chair back than the comments/actions of the older boy. And when he wanted the bed checks that night, it wasn't because he was worried about being sexually assulted - he was worried about general retaliation for telling the adults.

The older boy definitely deserves some kind of punnishment, but not to be banned from the troop. I mean, the main purpose of the BSA is "to provide a program ... that offers effective character, citizenship, and personal fitness training for youth" (first line on http://www.scouting.org/factsheets/02-503.html)

This boy (the older one) is the exact type of person who needs this training the most. If we just kick him out, what good does that do for his community? Remember, Jesus came to this world to reach out to the sinner, the lost sheep. Maai said that this boy was the subject of at least one adult meeting. My question is was it just his actions that were discussed, or was a course of action discussed to properly train the boy? I feel that his parents should be contacted and the parents and troop work close together to try to get this boy turned around and stop being a bully. I know this is not an easy thing to do, but it does work - i've seen it done several times in my own troop. Ok, enough rambling for now...