DuckyTheSecond

Well, I'm off to Fall Day Camp tomorrow.... I'll drink a toast of coffee for each and every one of you... even if it takes me both days

-Matt

"As for coffee, I drink a lot of the stuff and at times can be a real coffee snob. I hate the flavored stuff, but do enjoy good Kona and most dark roasted coffee."

AMEN!!!

My first encounters with Happiness in a Mug (Coffee) came when I was a cub scout at camp with my mom. I drink it black BECAUSE of camp.

Please: let us not forget the age old tradition of morning camp coffee... 5lbs of coffee/1 pot.... nothing quite beats the flavor of dirt and the caffine intake of Jolt!

If there were a ban placed on coffee at camp, would it truly work? For my duration in scouting I drank it with my leaders and now I drink it with den-parents as a staff member. If you'd have those like me at camp, they'd bring their own anyways, so it really wouldn't matter much if the scouts couldn't take from the urn, they'd just make their own.

Matt

Assumingly Campstaff would count towards adult leadership (if not no biggy)

1 Orange

5 Yellow

6 Green

4 Red

4 Blue (will be 2 without camp come Blue/Gold Time)

I think I need to take a smidge of a break... maybe...

P.S.: Camo, OD, and natural colors are Ok too... just as long as the scout wants to be found, they will be... They are harder to find with rustic colors, but they still leave traces of whereabouts.

As those of you who may know me know I'm a Search and Rescue geek with the US Air Force Auxiliary (Civil Air Patrol [CAP]). I do SAR for fun and pack and repack my gear when I'm bored, yes, I'm that bad...

Colors, as many of you have stated, don't make a lick of difference, you're 1/2 correct.

Although many of you may do SAR on the ground and be with ESAR posts, remember there are different types of SAR (ground, aerial, urban, etc). Well, from the sky, you can see more... A LOT more. Our ground team has worn Orange helmets since the Midwest Express crash back in the 1980's when one of our leaders (now a Lieutenant Colonel) was standing under a tree, looked up and saw wreckage swinging above him. The helmets serve as two tools, one... protects our heads, and two (back on subject) you can see them from the air!

If the search for someone, in particular a scout becomes large enough or the need arises, we're called and we release aircraft to find them. Although on the ground orange, yellow, red, etc don't make much difference, in the air it's like night and day, brighter colors stand out dramatically.

On the ground, a trained SAR team will look for man-tracking clues. Bright colored clothing does help us on the ground. Although you may appeared burried, the means in which we find you can be largely helped by your clothing.

Red shirts are semi-traditional scoutwear, they help, they're "fashionable" in scout terms.

Your best bet is still: map and compass! Learn to use them, they can save your's and other's lives.

Matt Kopp, c/2d Lt, CAP

WI-156, Ground Team Leader

koppm@msoe.edu

Badger, it is really more of a camp thing overall, as you said that you have seen. I'm not sure why they're asking for med cards, perhaps it's a way of insuring that you are insured. I forget what camp it was, and I'm not sure if it was Boy Scouts or Civil Air Patrol, but one of the two I also had to put a copy of my med card in.

Realistically, so that I don't keep rambling, best bet is to ask why, if your scoutmaster isn't sure, and you still want answers, call your council and ask them. If they don't have answers 86 it but just keep it with you in case they try starting something.

DS, the ranger out there out-dates Yoda. And I have proof! And I only say that because he's a friend of mine... And I was present for the great hot dog fight of which he has Yoda's moves for dodging... What a waste of 50 perfectly good hot dogs...

Eamonn,

1.) I concur with TPL about "As for your hypothetical situation. If a child has a food allergy... the whol kitchen staff needs to know that, because if they are making chocolate sundae's for lunch, the STAFF needs to be prepared as to what not to serve the child." If we don't then we obviously run into the fact of well, having to most likely call EMS. If the child is teased by staff, and I'm meaning in public from a staff perspective, then there is a problem that does need to be addressed with higher echleons, i.e. what TPL said, Camp Director, Scout Exec, District Exec, Etc.

2.) What you're essentially putting in is your own utopia. You said that the share of information cannot go further then needed. Well, by saying it stops, per se, at the kitchen director now you're saying that (s)he has to pick out one kid out of all of the campers. Now here's a hypothetical right back for you. Now say that Kitchen Director is absent one day and has not informed the lower echleons under him? Well then, we would have a problem, because say the Camp and Program directors also forget. And the scoutmaster is not there. We're now in a world of hurt. Now, things like this happen, it's not unusal for things to be forgotten.

3.) I'm an administration officer, Forms, they're my thing. If you read back in the posts, it's all about the information that is on the forms and people worried of it being shared, no denying it, is there? Well then, my advice from my POV is that change the form. Perhaps have 2 forms that coincide. One is released with your basic info - Name, Emergency Contact, Severe Injuries, Allergies and the Second Part which is retained in the office is the other half which contains Med's, Chronic Illness', Etc.

4.) Sir, quite honestly, I'm sorry if your children were made fun of by campers and by camp staff. Some of the things that you'd like, you'd find are almost impossible to do if you've ever been on camp staff. It's a totally different ball game, I've been on both sides of the coin. This one is harder. Sir, people like you come out every week, we have at least one group, any staff member would concur with it. What we do is provide a SAFE, fun, and (per se) action packed environment. To be able to deal with more than is necessary is assinine. We already invest over 60 hours per week trying to appease the children, parents, and troublesome parents. It's difficult. I know that you probably won't understand half of my statement in P4 unless you've been on staff. I don't say this in anger, I say this as a, "Dear God, What the hell is next" kind of feeling. Seriously, if you think you can do better, or would like to see better, APPLY FOR STAFF. Just remember if you do, you're there for the kids. If you think you can stop what happens, contact higher echleons, i.e. Region, or National Offices.

5.) I'm going to get down off my soap box now.

I really need to stop going away for weekends, ya'll type too much on here in the course of 3 days. Ok, I have been informed that the camp I work for requests COPIES of med forms, which creates less of a hassle. They are kept in the camp safe, as not to be disturbed, unless it is so called for, like people getting hurt or dying, whichever the case. Have any of us stopped to think that perhaps one of us should contact national if this is such a large issue? Given that there is really, only what, 5 or 6 of us who have posted, and 2 in defense of the camps, 2 opposed and 2 Florida's, it's moreless a toss up. My recommendation overall is to contact your council or your regional council to get in contact with National down in TX. I am for a defined policy, however, it should keep in mind that not only the medical officer should be made aware, but also directors from the various program areas so that an eye can be kept on "red flags". It's a basic chain of command with a need to know issue. Allow lower echleons the knowledge for prevention and safety concerns. Not all cases, but most can be prevented if things are known. Such items are filled in on the forms... Recent past injuries, Allergies, Reactions to allergies, and special precautions. Hell, if one is going to goto national, why not design a better form? If all you're concerned about is information, design a different, more limited form. However, keep in mind, some of the information that is provided is probably required by the Mutual of Omaha, BSA's insurance company. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm not.

Eamonn,

I agree with about 95% of what you've said. Camp is for the campers, without them, there is no camp, you are correct. You said that, "The camper does assume the responsibility of following the limitations that are placed upon him by his Doctor." I hate to say it, but can an 8 year old camper remember to say no to something because a doctor said no? I've been there before as both staff and as a camper at 8 years old. Owl, you're right it is the handling. I too, have not seen a published policy. I'd assume that for camp, there should be some sort of Directors' meeting with the health officer. The Dr./medic reviews the files for any red flags and informs the staff of them. For the most part, parents and leaders are really SUPER about letting the camp/program director know and they pass the information down and do so in a professional manner, typically at the morning staff briefing. I am going to email my bosses, or "Tradingpostlady" if you could talk to them, the would rock. But I now am interested in a true policy.

Ok, I hate to say this, I really do, because it pains me to go against camp and because we're ALWAYS short-handed. But, for the sake of arguement I will say it. Every week we have some sort of parent intervention in something or another, ALWAYS, from food to balloons, parents always manage to change program. What most don't realize is that the programs that camp and the camp staff provide have been tested, used, and Okayed by national. Believe me when I say national knows what they're doing, they've been doing it for 75 years for Cub Scouting!

The answer I'm about to give is quite simple. Like I said, I hate to say it because scouting is in ever low numbers, but, if you don't like camp - DON'T GO! If you're so concerned with information being leaked, released, shared, whatever, DON'T GO. Honestly, camp will run fine without you. And from the staff point of view, we ask, if you're going to put some kind of fork in the road, per se, don't go. It makes our lives hell, as well as the other campers, not only in your group, but in other groups.

When you say your medical information is released, that confuses me. It's not released to anyone other than those you come, more less, into direct contact with. The Med forms aren't used only to see "red flags" but also are a means to contact people if there is some sort of outbreak that has occurred.

I'm not sure if you're aware, there are 3 Levels of Med Forms, L1 is just for basic events, it's actually filled out when you sign-up. L2 is your bi-yearly, that's right if you read the fine print you only need one every-other year, for summer camp. The L3, which most have probably not seen are for those attending High-Adventure and Back-Country events.

Don't be worried about your information leaking, when you're at camp, your forms are held-locked up, the only leak would be in Waterfront, or whereever med checks are, or may be performed and handing it to your scoutmaster. Other then at some camps the WF Director seeing them, no other staff is privied. Your information is not being released. The forms are confidential and if your camp is doing something other then that, perhaps a talk with the Camp and Program Directors is in order.

As for your med information being released, maybe more staff should see it. Because aside from your everyday cases of asthma or allergies, I had an incident last year that WOULD have been prevented had I seen the Med Sheet. Everything is alright now, but when EMS has to be called because confidentiality is upheld, perhaps it's time to become a little less secretive.

Owl, I'm not 100% sure on the official policy's of BSA, too new to the beauaracy for that, I can ask my boss and find out. I do, however, know that camp keeps Med Records, of staff at least, for like 2 or 3 years. This is to insure that if there is an outbreak or something that we have track-back records. Again, I'll email my DE and find out for you if you'd like.

Well, I've been on staff for about 4 years now, I'm considered a Sr. Staff Member because of being on Cub Day Staff, we don't have a good turn-around rate, namely, as you all know, because of the pay. However, we have a coed staff, and when I was a camper, we had coed staff also. They, however stayed over at the camp ALL SUMMER. From staff week to staff week (Open to Close) they camped in the cabins. About 10 years ago, however, it ended. We had an interesting incident with a male and female staffer. A couple of the other long time campers/staffers and I figured out, mathematically (like figuring that we make $2/hr) that we would now have their CHILD as one of our campers. Since then, however, we have not had any major incidents. We've had boyfriend-girlfriend relationships, and really, they are respectful of camp. As our boss says, every summer, "THIS IS DAY CAMP; NOT DATE CAMP!". I can recall at least 3 incidents, 1 from personal experience, but nothing ever came of them because they never escalated. Our PD and CD know enough to trust us. Our staff started at around 15 as CIT's and now we range from 16 to 21! We out-date our bosses!

So, realistically, it's understandable as to why nothing happens, we've become more like a family then... So, we can be trusted. We also look out for one and other, it's just the way that we've developed, it's nice to have a family to fall back on each summer.