ctbailey

How does it work to insure other people's assets? Does your insurance company know that what you are insuring does not belong to you? When it comes to making a claim, it might be a bit late to be making that clarification.

 

Stosh

He said they "ended up paying..." That could mean the insurance policy was paid-for using monies from the troop account. (Which, of course - the currency is an asset of the CO.)

I suppose an insurance company would rather take a policy premium $ up front, and then during a claim the underwriting department would eventually find out who REALLY owns the trailer.

Yup. Like Stosh said - they (the BSA medalions available at the Scout Shop) are really soft aluminum. They are pre-rolled, but the diameter is not exactly for "their" (the BSA Staff available at the Scout Shop) staffs. You'll have to definetly "work" it to exactly conform to the staff shape.

Liquid nails is a good option, but you'll want to figure out a good way to wrap the entire assembly to dry, to ensure the medallion holds the shape.

I do both - nails and adhesive, and I've used the staffs and also "walking sticks" that were natural tree branches with good success. I will use wax paper and then "whip" around the glued medallion around the staff. Either way, the rolled shape of the medallions are never exactly the same as the walking stick it's being applied to.

Bob, you've said "the CO does not have any property..."

You do understand that the trailer, tents, stoves, etc are the CO's property?

Unfortunately, no matter the source of funding, if gear is bought "for the unit," it is owned by the CO. When a unit leaves a CO, a bill of sale needs to be written FROM the old CO to the NEW CO that indicates a transfer of assets.

It's true that CO's typically do not like talking about this, or more correctly... the unit leadership does not like talking about this subject to their CO. This kind of discussion is sort of "icky" to most folks, and shows the hard business side of life and Scouting.

Life is ugly, and when we all start talking about liabilities, and $1,000,000 aggregate occurrence coverage and the like... many folks' eyes glaze over, but insurance is a very important subject.

BSA Liability coverage is ALWAYS secondary after all other partie's coverage has been exhausted in the occurrence of an incident. The National Council and probably your local council are also self-insured. This means an army of lawyers will be protecting the wallet firstly, and secondly (if at all) helping your poor unit or well-meaning volunteer driver after a mishap.

Don't mess around with this stuff. the theft of the trailer and it's contents are the least of your worries. When the trailer decouples from the ASM's Dodge dart, rolls into the southbound lane, and all the LP cylinders ignite in the aftermath - that's what you're worried about. Or more importantly - you CO SHOULD BE WORRIED about.

What's the CO going to do? shut down the unit. But they are legally on the hook for damages.

Huh. I'm surprised at how quickly so many people immediately got on the "That was a terrible idea!" bandwagon.

It's true, that the CURRENT G2SS clearly lists liquid firestarters as prohibited items, SSScout didn't say when this cooking demo occured. It might have occurred in the 70's.

But, to build an open cooking source big enough for 25 people, that will eventually smolder quite nicely and safely I thought was pretty good.

And then to be able to simply wrap up the ashes and toss into the trash after out cold... how much more LNT can you get?

The tin foil cooking demo is always a tough bit of the course to logisticate, and I speak from experience having instructed the outdoor cooking portion.

To do something similar in accordance with the G2SS would require a bit more lead-up time to get the coals ready, and if prepared in the center of a gravel drive/parking area of camp... why not? Just be aware of the potential for wind, and be prepared with a charged water hose standing by.

Sometimes a "backwoods" approach is the correct approach. But sometimes you simply have 25 or more participants who have absolutely no idea that a meal can be prepared in a tin foil pouch, and 5 (or more) traditional fire rings/lays are not possible or plausible for cooking.

Done safely, I applaud those instructors who were so bold to think outside the box, and actually accomplish a mass cooking event in a Leave no Trace manner!

I'm surprised it took them thirty years to realize a $900 per month rental income wasn't worth the potential liability of a hands-off rental property. Think of the worst case scenarios... As a hands off landlord, they would never know if any unscrupulous activities were occurring "on scouting property."

?..E.g. Red aiguillette for a scout that earns shotgun rifle and archery' date=' blue for a scout that earns hiking swimming and cycling etc.[/quote'] What's an aiguillette?

Thanks everyone for the clarification.

I recall vaguely that the Venturing and Cub Programs were supposed to change the hand salutes, was that to happen on January 1st 2014?

I understand there are some big changes just released regarding advancement, but I'm a bit embarrassed to admit I'm hazy on whether the hand salute has changed.

I'm not crazy, right?

So, Kathy,

How did this all shake out? Did your guys take the training? Did they staff it? Seeing as though its been almost a year since the initial post, are they fully functional & trained ASM's now?

I was there in June 2010, and let me tell ya: Bring plenty of allergy meds! The cottonwoods are in full "drop" in June, and my allergies, combined with the Altitude adjustment, combined with the extreme dry weather made for some serious headaches.

Also, my down sleeping bag was WAY too hot. I ended up driving to Raton to buy some sheets, the nights only got down to the fifties, so a sheet was really all I needed.

The Wi-Fi made communicating back home nice.

The only thing I think I would do different would be to make the weight limits, because they prohibit you from hiking the Tooth of Time if you don't comply with the current BMI requirements.

Moose - that's good to know that BSA has allowed volunteers to make copies of the material. This might be different for some parts of the WB curruculum? Have I heard that the WB stuff is "licensed" by a 3rd party?

ctb

Hey Moose:

I'm currently in the process of doing something similar for work. I've been using "Camtasia Studio" to create movies of the computer screen for training purposes.

Then - in order to present the material I'm developing a PowerPoint slide deck. One thing I've learned during this process - I've used every version of PowerPoint throughout my career, and only NOW in PowerPoint 2010 does it provide good results.

Another thing I've learned is movie clips are humungous file sizes. You need to LINK to the video clips in PowerPoint - Do not embed them, or else the PowerPoint file becomes Ginormous, and performance is lost.

Also, when video clips are linked, you need to keep all the clips with the PowerPoint presentation in the same directory, or else no clicky-clicky if you get my drift.

Another potential gotcha - the resolution of the video clips may or may not look great "inside" a PowerPoint slide, so you'll probably end up going fullscreen anyways.

But none of this is anygood unless you can capture the video. This is where Camtasia would be useful. But before you do any dubbing, the copyright of the BSA material needs to be reviewed. This may be un-kosher.

My advice - skip it, and have an elf with you, sitting at the laptop and switching between Windows Media Player and PowerPoint.

Yours in Scouting,

Craig

Where did they go?

Abel,

If you are "addressing" your council issues, how can we help you if you won't help us - help you?

The people who can actually begin the help would be the Area and Regional Commissioners. These individuals have a direct line to the Area and Regional Director - who is a professional scouter you can trust.(This message has been edited by ctbailey)

Abel - what Council are you in?

to answer your question - "Can a unit earn the CQU award without..." Apparently the answer is yes, in your council at least.

So, answer my question - what council are you in? When we know that answer, we can direct you to the people who can actually help.

HI i8...

Unfortunately, my crystal ball tells me this scenario will not be a huge success.

There needs to be clear seperation from the unit if a UC is to be successful. Apparently your District Commissioner does not fully understand this, or else the immediate former SM would not be providing commissioner service for his own unit.

I understand we all wear different "hats" in Scouting. There just is never enough people to go around. But in this case - a former SM who may actually have worked with the problem ASM - will not have the clarity enough to provide a truley objective perspective.

I of course hope the outcome is different, but experience tells me this UC will not be effective in this particular deal.

Good Luck

Unfortunately, I hear similar reports as BadenP has indicated.

The Commissioner Corps, however, I truly believe - is beginning a rennasance period. It will not be an overnight fix, but as the Corps gets "younger," through a constant influx of new people, and we continue to get the word out as to what GOOD commissioner service looks like, I think we can turn around the trend.

When I see an unfortunate case such as this ASM is causing in this thread, I try to take a minute and demonstrate and/or explain how a good commissioner would react/act. Hopefully, as these forums also continue to attract younger, more energetic people, we might be able to entice some good people into Commissioner Service.

Scouting is all about relationships. It's not about "power," or the "right way" of doing things. Those units who are fortunate enough to have a UC that "gets it" are usually the most successful.

In my District we have a very vibrant corps of commissioners, nearly 25 strong, covering the roughly 60 units. The District Commissioner has been very active, and has been having honest heart-to-heart discussions with the inactive "commissioner in name only" types. There has been a reduction in numbers of commissioners here, but clearly an improvement overall.

It just takes a core staff of people who care. With the strong opinions displayed on this board, there is no loss of passion. With the right District Commissioner, that person can re-direct that kind of passion into constructive assistance to units.

If, on the other hand, the District Commissioner position is handed to someone as an out-to-pasture position, no change will come.

i82much - the advice given so far is sound. You've sort of received a bunch of "cyber Unit Commissioner" advice. Just think if you had someone you trusted you could have turned to months ago, you wouldn't have to resort to this public forum.

Well, someone mentioned that the UC wasn't "needed" earlier in this thread. I have to respectfully disagree.

The Unit Commissioner is a volunteer who is not registered to the unit, but instead is registered with the District. This is helpful in cases like this, because a good UC can see the "forest through the trees." By not being part of the problem, the UC can help the unit solve their own challenges.

A good UC is a diplomat. A good UC has taken the time to build a good relationship with the unit on both the "committee side" as well as the "program side." This way when these issues arise they can actually be helpful.

Since the OP has never mentioned any sort of interaction with a Unit Commissioner, I'd recommend i82much to contact the District Commissioner, and inquire about a unit commissioner for their unit.

The Commissioner Corps is there to be a "friend to the unit." It sounds like this unit just needs a "friend."

Craig

Well, that Scouting Article pretty much clears that up! Thanks!

Simple question - Should a district volunteer, such as a Unit Commissioner, who is only registered with the district, but serves Venture Crews with unit service, choose to wear the Spruce green uniform?

Eamon:

Your district actually had an operating budget? Technically, as "arms" of the local council, a district uses the operating budget of the council.

Was your previous SE actually billing the volunteers?

Well, now that we've really stirred the pot...

Folks, we all need to remember this is Scouts. Take it easy.

Our Council is in the same situation as many are - and ALL the councils next year - in that we will need to ensure all D.C. leaders are trained prior to recharter. Just like every other council in the country, there is a shortage of volunteers. The old adage 10% of the people do 90% of the work is still true today.

It is widely understood and accepted that IOLS can be a great experience, or it can be considered a complete waste of time by the participants, all depending on the faculty, facility, and logistics.

I'm sure the district training committee in every district in the country is understaffed, and overwhelmed by the concept that every leader will be trained eventually.

This is why Moosetracker's post is so timely. The forecasted number of participants is based on the roster, and what ScoutNet is reporting for "trained" leaders. This forecast is just one district of a nine district council, which happens to be 95% of the entire state of New Hampshire. Each district in this council is in a similar boat.

That is why I suggested this district event be expanded into a council event. Many of you on this board have pointed out the value of bringing trainers in from other districts. Many of you on this board have pointed out the need to have a rather large staff to effectively train a large number of students.

Can a "council" event be properly pulled together in 90 days? Probably not. Not without complete buy-in from the other District's training chairs. This "sandbox" belongs squarely to the District Trainining chairs. Not the commissioners. Not the "Wood Badge" bunch.

I agree a facilty with classrooms is essential for good indoor training. OLS and OWL, however, are OUTDOOR training events. These should be taught outside. Weather should only be considered if a life safety situation arises. What better facilty than a flagship council owned property?

I guess I am talking myself out of the idea that a "council wide" event is possible. But I still think it would be possible to team up with another District to pool resources.

Thanks for listening. I now am stepping off my soap box.

Moose,

You've got a huge task ahead of you.

IMHO, you should approach this less like a district event, but more like a mini-UOS.

Sure, there are alot of people on WB staff - about 30, maybe 40? There are thousands of registered people in the Council who are not on WB staff - and there are a huge amount of folks who are not allowed to be on WB staff, because they have not been through WB21.

Don't let anyone poo-poo a huge undertaking, just simply because "it has never been done before" or - "we don't do it like that."

You've go my email. Let me know how I can help.

craig

I know we in Arrowhead have been discussing this for months - the fact that we are going to have a rush of people to get trained this fall.

The Commissioner service is readying ourselves to be prepared to assist the district training committee if and when asked.

I would aim high, and not look to cap the attendance. Since the weekend is between WB1 and WB2, it only makes sense to utilize Hidden Valley if the OA hasn't all ready booked that weekend. I know the valley is very popular, so try and secure it as soon as possible. The canvas will still be up, and the kitchen can be fired up. (You'll need kitchen workers, of course in addition to your faculty.)

This way when the attendance eventually hits 200, you will have the facility to handle that many people.

i would set up the meals so they are "modular," and you can simply scale them up. I would also try and cut a deal with the Council food supplier, and have your produce and food delivered, similar to the way they supply the camp while in operation.

Then entire council needs this training, and "Direct Contact" includes EVERY REGISTERED LEADER except for registered committee members.

As for recruiting the training staff, you can not wait on this. You'll need to contact each District Training chair directly. You've met them all at the coordinated meetings in Concord.

This could be the best training event the Council has ever seen, and you'll be a hero! Commissioner staff's from each district are not the primary resource for trainers - the District Training committee is the first place to recruit trainers from.

Good luck - this is going to be epic! (When can I start encouraging the units that I provide commissioner service to to plan on attending IOLS in September?)

Moose - has the Council Training Chair been asked for resources? She may be able to round up several other District training committees to come and help... and maybe even bring "their" students?

All the districts are in the same boat - train train train!