szekany

But wouldn't you agree that it would be better to do it in the light if possible?

Sure. But there's often a huge disconnect between theory and reality. (I should know, being a college level physics student. ) The reality is that we do what's right for the kids.

It really doesn't matter why BSA has made Laser Tag "Unauthorized and Restricted", it has.

Ah, but the real question we should be asking is "why"? "I was just following the rules" is always a poor excuse.

Have you ever played laser tag? The basic game in our area involves two teams that move around a maze playing high-tech freeze tag. A "tag" freezes the player for 30 seconds, while flashing video-game style lights and playing whooping noises. You get points for tags, but more points for team goals like tagging the opposing team's base.

In short, it is a fun no-contact game in which the younger kids can compete on equal terms with the older boys, and build teamwork across age groups. It is, for us, a program feature that is decidedly useful in our mission with youth.

Programmatically, therefore, the notion of a laser tag prohibition does not make any sense to me. Simply put, if a boy doesn't understand the difference between a large, plastic laser toy and a firearm, then he is in need of immediate professional psychological intervention, including institutionalization to protect himself and others. It isn't an issue of banning toy pistols, he needs help NOW.

In terms of safety, laser tag is one of the safest activities we do. Our local place even bans running, jumping, and physical contact. I have the hardest time even imagining a realistic accident scenario.

Quite definitively so.

Actually not, as I wrote in my earlier post, "laser tag" doesn't even use "lasers" and is thus exempt from that line in the G2SS. Ironic, eh?

If you enjoy Laser Tag so much, by all means indulge in the activity, just not as any type of BSA Unit.

Which brings up an interesting moral question. If a group of kids is going to go do an activity anyway... wouldn't it be better to have it properly supervised than to have them run off and do it in secret? Or do we get so caught up in following policy that we forget we're running a kids program? (This is probably more relevant for, say, paintball than laser tag, but still.)

I can't help but wonder, if you "ignore" this BSA rule, what other BSA rules are you ignoring?

My personal favorite is the black lettered prohibition on nighttime driving. Here in the Great North of Michigan, this would require us to literally shut down our program four months of the year because of the lack of evening daylight. Obviously, the belief of the troop and our chartered org is that running a program takes precedence.

So, I went to "training" a couple months ago. (Sidenote: I really hate that word -- my dog is "trained", but it seems to me people should be "instructed" Can't we call it "Adult Instruction" or something?)

Regardless, I went to the Safe Swim Defense and Safety Afloat "training". As a background to this, I have significant boating experience, all the way from Class IV+ whitewater kayaking up to big-boat sailing.

The meeting began with somebody complaining about some camporee thing. I don't have much to do with the council most of the time, so I didn't really understand all the issues. It did strike me as an odd way to start though, to yell at the volunteers who voluntarily gave up another evening to come to this event.

Moving on, one of the district people decided to ask me if they could do FOS at a troop Court of Honor. I replied no, that wouldn't be appropriate. He then decided to ask one of the parents from my unit who happened to be there the same question. That struck me as being totally inappropriate, but hey, it's my first time, I'll let it slide.

We moved on to the actual SA/SD stuff, which consisted of about 10 people in a room around a table. We were handed a packet of information, which was 25 pages or so of photocopies of some official BSA info. One of the salaried council people (not sure of exactly who he was) proceeded to read verbatim the info packet we'd just been handed. Yes, the whole thing. An hour later, we were handed our official SA/SD cards and were free to go. I am now, apparently, "trained" to safely guide scouts on paddling trips and supervise swimming. I am very afraid.

I suggest you read your G2SS... Laser Tag is specifically prohibited.

To be honest, the whole "laser tag is evil" issue just reminds me of an old Calvin and Hobbes comic. To paraphrase, it went something like:

"Do violent video games desensitize us to blood and gore?"

"Maybe."

"Do video games make an effective scapegoat for a violent society?"

"Definitely."

"Do video games actually cause violence?"

"Well, now that's hard to prove."

Without even going into the interpretation of the G2SS, I'll admit that we just ignore it. Laser tag is one of our favorite "fun nights". It's a great "fun night" because everyone (adults included) competes on an equal footing and not much advantage is given to being older/stronger/faster/etc. It promotes physical fitness and teamwork.

And let's not forget the biggest irony to the whole issue is that Laser Tag doesn't even use lasers! The "lasers" are actually infrared beams and the "laser gun" isn't a firearm, thus meaning Laser Tag is exempt from the BSA laser prohibition. The real meaning of the G2SS passage is to prohibit laser-guided firearms, not laser tag.

And above all, let us remember that a Scout (and Scouter) is Mentally Awake, and never blindly follows policy without understanding.

Thanks for posting this, Beavah! This is a really interesting topic. IMO, we're failing in our mission if we don't adjust and "tweak" our program to meet the needs of our youth. Identifying what other programs work for our youth and why is an excellent first step to figuring out what we should change.

So perhaps the question we should ask ourselves is: how can we take the best parts of the "video game experience" and apply them to Scouting?

In some ways, there's a fair bit of overlap as it is, at least in the unit I've been with. Lots of Scout run stuff. Scouts advance at their own pace in response to the challenges the program presents (no artificial first-class-first-year silliness). Failure is a part of improvement.

And yet, there's other things we could learn. There's no laundry list of sign-offs to get past a "level". Lots of mental and physical challenge and less "being talked at" (or worse - "trained").

Hmm... lots of interesting stuff here. I'll have to think about this one a bit more.

We're pretty much on a first name basis. Lots of nicknames, pretty informal. I'm "Steve" to everyone from the first-years to the Pastor. As somebody else mentioned, we find this helps break down the barriers to developing good adult relationships with scouts.

Every once in a while somebody will call me "Mr. Zekany". It totally throws me off...

Last month, we had a focus group of kids meeting to talk about the options of chartering a new "varsity team"-like unit with our chartered organization. They spent a fair bit of time talking about what they liked/didn't like about the current program. The biggest dislike, hands down, was the current BSA uniform.

All the usual points came up. The uniform is virtually useless outdoors. The uniform is goofy. Expensive.

Beavah's right. We adults can talk all we want about the abstract social status of uniforming theory, but it doesn't seem to matter to our kids.

Oh, forgot to mention - Lots of time gyms will have their own odd policies on age related to climbing. Most of the time, you'll need all the parents to sign a waver form. There might be a minimum age for climbing as well, but it depends on the gym. Just be sure to ask about it.

Gym climbing makes for a great meeting. I'm not sure how much you know about climbing, but you should be aware that every climbing wall will require your group to either A.) prove they know how to belay or B.) do a "guided tour" for the group. Some climbing walls (yours might be one) will only do option B.

For option A, most climbing gyms require each person to either pass a belay test or take their "learn to belay" class. Usually this costs extra and takes an hour or two. Depending the climbing gym and ability of the instructor, the instruction quality of this "class" ranges from OK to mediocre, usually somewhere in between. (The problem is with the method, belaying is a highly technical skill requiring repeated practice in various conditions and can't be sufficiently learned in an hour.)

For option B, if you've got a large group of beginners, most climbing gyms can set it up where they bring in staff to do all the belaying and all the participants have to do is climb. This usually has to be arranged in advance, however. Don't just assume you can walk in and have everything taken care of. Most gyms do this kind of thing commonly for birthday parties and scout troops, so they shouldn't be surprised. You might even be able to rent the entire wall for a flat hourly rate.

If you've got a large group with little-to-no belaying

experience, I can't recommend option B highly enough. If you don't even know what the word "belay" means, choose option B.

Hope this helps!

-Steve Zekany (who BTW used to manage a climbing gym)

We have a "Parent Handbook" of sorts to answer most commonly asked questions.

Here's a link to a version on our web site:

http://www.troop8.org/Publications/pdffiles/PHB.pdf

It's a bit dated, but still quite good at answering basic questions.

We don't own a trailer, but we spent at least five or six years trying to figure out how to organize our troop equipment room. I imagine the two have a fair bit in common. It's only recently that we've found a system that seems to be working well for us - designed by one of our ASMs who happens to be an industrial operations engineer.

Let me attempt to describe our current working system. It involves pegboard placed around the walls of a room we've been allowed to use at our chartered org. The room itself is maybe 12 x 10 feet or so, and probably 12 feet high. The pegboard is divided into patrol areas, and colored appropriately. The pegboard itself contains hooks for all the troop gear we have: stoves, fuel bottles, utinsels, first aid kits, tents, and so forth. Each and every item has it's own hook and is labeled appropriately. Behind each item on the board is a bright red "shadow" in the rough shape of the actual item. The idea here is that it's easy to tell what's missing just by glancing at the board. We use small chalkboard tags which scouts can use to write their name on when they check out a piece of gear. The tag hangs on the hook until they return it.

About 9 feet up, we built a sturdy shelf around the room for long term and seasonal storage of larger items like skis, boxes, and loaner gear. We also put hooks on the side of the shelf to allow drying of tents.

If any part of that didn't make sense, just ask me to clarify. I can try and post some pictures too, if you're interested.

Off the top of my head, here's my general advice for gear storage.

-Don't use boxes to store things. Boxes have a tendancy to keep things hidden where you'll never find them. You have to open them to verify exactly what's inside. If you must use boxes, keep them small and use transperent ones.

-Don't use the floor as storage space. We've destroyed many a stove by someone stomping in, fumbling for the light switch.

-Find someone who can really own the process of checking gear and and out. This person should be someone who can be painfully deliberative at making sure gear is checked out and returned properly. Preferably they should spend a few years at it - it'll take them the first year just to get the hang of it.

Wow, sounds like quite a mess you've managed to step into.

First of all, welcome to the crazy world of Boy Scouting! As you've seen already, some people take the "game" a little too seriously.

ScoutMomAng wrote:

> 3. The scoutmaster is appointed by the COR AND approved by the

> committee chairman!?????? I thought this was the other way.

Yes, this is correct. The scoutmaster is empowered by the committee to manage the troop. It isn't so much a "working under" relation as it is analogous to a board of directors and CEO arrangement. The board hires the CEO, but gives him jurisdiction over virtually all operations and [if they're doing their job right] don't interfere unless there's an actual problem.

My guess is your committee is primarily a loose collection of parents who really do appreciate the scoutmaster, but probably don't understand the function of a committee. We fixed this in our troop by going to a more traditional "board of directors" type committee made up of people with real experience and vision from the community. This might be the long-term fix for you.

In the short term, it sounds like the scoutmaster holds enough clout to be able to veto this proposal. If that's the case, I wouldn't worry about it anymore - it'll blow over and next week the committee will have something new to complain about. If this isn't the case and you're in jeopardy of losing the scoutmaster and many troop members from this issue, then you should take it to the attention of your chartered organization.

nldscout wrote:

> The SM is wrong in saying that he must sign it to be in effect.

> Writing by-laws is a committee decision, not the SM. If the

> majority of the committee approves it then its a done deal.

While this is technically correct, it's important to remember that the committee and SM relationship is expected to have a level of trust both ways. In this case, while it may well be within the "right" of the committee to pass bylaws, passing them without the approval of the scoutmaster is a decision to fire the scoutmaster. The reason is that for the committee to overrule the advice of the operating head of the organization would be for them to say they no longer have confidence is his/her ability to effectively lead the organization, at which point the scoutmaster has virtually no choice but to resign from the organization.

There's no easy answer to the question "how much is too much." So much depends on the circumstances of your troop and the kids involved.

My advice is that you listen to the advice of the scouts - hopefully through their elected members of the PLC, who then reflect the opinions of the troop in the planning of the calendar. Of course, this process may need some help along the way; you might consider holding an occasional "open feedback" session for the troop as part of a meeting, maybe once every 6 months or so. Give all the scouts the opportunity to give their feedback on troop operations with their Patrol Leader, and then take it all to the PLC and evaluate.

For my troop, in general we would never cut back on program because of scouter commitments. We'd recruit new adults or work hard to resolve scheduling conflicts, but to cut down because of adult concerns does a disservice to the scouts. Your mileage may vary... we have the advantage of having a number of committed adults and alumni who are willing to help out.