First Class age

[Oak Tree 15]

So how quickly do you all see your the most active of your new Scouts reaching First Class? I think our troop had a couple at about the six-month mark this year.

 

Oak Tree

[Kudu 186]

The same is true in our Troop. If a Scout joins in May, knows how to swim, goes to summer camp and ALL of the campouts and Troop events, he can usually earn First Class by November. Last year, only one Scout of the twelve that joined in May did so because only three of the twelve could go to summer camp. An additional one of these three Scouts also earned First Class in six months, but the total elapsed time was a year because he dropped out for six months after his dad died.

 

If a Scout joins in September when I recruit in the local public school, it will usually take him a year if he knows how to swim and goes to summer camp the following summer. If one or two of them are very motivated, we will schedule Troop events so as to proceed at their pace.

 

Non-swimmers usually take three or four years, if they ever earn First Class at all.

 

It takes longer for Scouts joining in September because the advancement for those Scouts is handled more by the Scouts themselves, and it is just plain clunky. Our current 13 year-old Troop Guide is very good, but he can only handle one or two Scouts at a time so there is no group advancement. One of his Instructors can handle a couple of additional Scouts, but frankly the two of them work harder than most of the other Scouts, and sometimes they just want to lay back and act like lazy 13 year-olds :-/

 

I'm rebuilding the Troop so we don't have many older role model Scouts. On monthly campouts, most of our new Scouts are interested only in Patrol hikes and cooking. The rest of all that advancement stuff, not so much.

 

We do NOT take advantage of summer camp staff-run "first year Scout" advancement programs. My Assistant Scoutmasters run our own first year program in our campsite during the day while the Troop Guide and his Instructors take Merit Badge classes.

 

I try to talk non-swimmers into taking swimming instruction if it is offered by the camp, and I try to talk first year Scouts that can swim into taking Swimming & Canoeing Merit Badges (so that they can go on canoe trips in the fall).

 

I also try to encourage Patrols to take some of the same Merit Badges together as a Patrol, but the nerdy Patrols tend to be more individualistic.

 

In the evenings at summer camp, the motivated squeaky wheels are free to corner someone to work on advancement, so it is possible for motivated first year Scouts to take five Merit Badges (including cooking) during the day AND catch up on all of the Tenderfoot-First Class requirements that were offered while they were out earning Merit Badges. The remaining advancement requirements are covered from August through November.

 

This year the Scouts decided to go to a summer camp that happens to have centralized cooked meals, so we won't be cooking every meal by Patrol, which I think is a shame.

[schleining 11]

11.

The Scouts should should all get First Class in the First year. IN the first year, I have seen (not in my new Troop) Scouts reach it in about 6 months.

In our Troop we do not push it, we let it come, but the activity level of the Troop is such that the boys should all be First Class in a year. They will have plenty of Camping experience, and plenty of opportunity to advance, Scoutmaster Conferences, BOR, swim tests, and demonstrated scouting skills.

 

So if they join at 11 they could have First Class before their next Birthday or a year.

 

Jerry

I used to be a BEAVER...

And a good 'ol BEAVER too...

[LPC_Thumper 10]

In my troop we do a couple of things that many locals have commented on, so here goes...

 

Every year we hold 3 "Advancement Campouts". The campout schedule reflects the idea that this campout will help accomplish either Tenderfoot, 2nd Class, or 1st Class. Of course, if you miss the campout, you can arrange with an adult to have them help a young scout get those skills. If you're on a campout before the associated campout, and you already know the skill, you can have an adult sign you off for that as well.

 

It works for us, and we find that our first year guys are finishing up 1st Class about a year into their time. We have problems with our boys not leaving and therefore being available for an older boy program... This helps too.

[SR540Beaver 116]

One of the 1st Class requirements is, "Since joining, have participated in ten separate troop/patrol activities (other than troop/patrol meetings), three of which included camping overnight."

 

This is kind of a dumb question, but what do you consider an activity? Are service projects or a trip to the ballpark considered an activity for advancement purposes? This question came towards the end oflast year when one boy who had missed several campouts was lagging behind his fellow scout peers in making 1st class. His dad (an ASM) questioned whether our scouting for food drive would count. Our SM said no, he considered only our campouts as qualifying for advancement. He is an Eagle Scout and our district trainer. I never was comfortable with his answer. We don't do a lot of "extracurricular" activities. Should a troop planned trip to the local water park for an afternoon carry the same weight toward advancement as a weekend campout?

 

I realize that the requirement says that three of the activities should include camping overnight. Do we advance boys for attending entertainment venues as long as they show up for at least 3 campouts over a year or two?

[FScouter 24]

Think like a Boy Scout reading his book. Does the requirement sound like "camping only"? What would you call things the patrol or troop does together if you don't call them "activities"?

[Oak Tree 15]

Ok, that question seems like it has a pretty clear answer. It can't possibly be camping only, because only three of the activities have to involve camping. We consider any troop or patrol activity to count, just as the wording would seem to clearly imply (no, it's more than 'imply', it states it right out).

 

Your SM is definitely adding to the requirements here. Going to the waterpark, or the ballpark, or on a service project should all count as activities.

 

How about my original question - how quickly did your boys make First Class? I'm guessing it takes a little while longer if only campouts are counted.

 

Oak Tree

[SR540Beaver 116]

Oak,

 

It took 10 months to reach 1st class which fit right into the 1st class, first year scenario for those who attended each months campout. We have one boy who has been in for a year and a half who is still 2nd class, but he plays baseball and football and misses quite a few meetings and campouts and isn't too self motivated. Heck, he isn't very adult motivated either!

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing in favor of only campouts counting for advancement. I think part of the issue for our SM is that the natural activities on campouts count towards a good amount of fulfilling the requirements. It is kind of hard to cook a meal for yourself over an open fire at the local water park or to select a camp site at the ball park.

 

I'm all for having fun. The boys have elected to go to Six Flags in the fall in place of a camping trip. I think part of the concern of some of the adult leaders is that they want to provide a good outdoor program and don't want boys skipping campouts and only showing up for entertainment venues. Lets say that you have a monthly campout and a monthly "activity" for a troop of 20 boys. What do you do when you have 20 boys show up for each activity and only 4 for each campout? As long as the other 16 show up for at least 3 single night campouts, they can advance right along with the campers. Which group is learning, mastering and using scouting skills?

 

This has not really been an issue for us because we have been pretty light on activity based outings in favor of camping outings. There really have been few other activities that our boys could use in place of camping.

[FScouter 24]

"What do you do when you have 20 boys show up for each activity and only 4 for each campout?". I'd say get enough drivers, go and have a fun time.

 

They will get credit for participating in a troop activity. When they reach 10 activities, they have met that requirement for the rank advancement. Those boys that have lots of camping activities will have had more opportunities to meet the other rank requirements. Those that only attend entertainment activities will have a more difficult time meeting the other rank requirements.

 

So what could be the purpose of the SM making up a "camping only" rule? Who knows, but it looks like he enjoys playing the role of the "big boss".

 

[molscouter 10]

Our basic rule of thumb is that it counts as long as it isn't troop meeting night. Our troop meets on Monday nights. Summer trip to the water park on Monday evening, no. Food drive on Saturday morning, yes.

[Hunt 11]

In my son's troop, boys have the opportunity to reach First Class in the first year, but most have not done so. Most probably take more like a year and a half to two years, sometimes longer (or never). There are a few reasons for this:

1. The troop has typically done its recruiting in the fall with the new school year, rather than in the spring. This means that new scouts don't go to summer camp until after the first year. This slows them down.

2. The troop is not always focused enough on providing the opportunities for advancement. For example, in past years we scheduled a special 5-mile hike so scouts could satisfy the Second Class requirement. This year we didn't do that (although there was a backpacker that would have done this--but the newer scouts didn't go.)

3. Some of the new scouts aren't too motivated--don't attend regularly, don't bring their books, etc. The main exception probably will complete 1st Class by the end of summer camp--less than a year.

We're looking at ways to improve all these things.

[schleining 11]

Hunt-

This is probably a new topic....

But why are the new Scouts Not motivated?

It sounds to me, and I have only read your posts, have not attended a meeting at your Troop or gone on an outing...

But I would say (generally) that if your New Scouts are not motivated, than the leadership has not done anything to motivate them or given them a program to be motivated about.

This is a blunt statement...but I have seen this in our area and the proof is in the pudding as they say.

 

If you are having trouble in your Troop with new Scouts... I would hate to see your Jr. Leaders and the attitudes of your older Scouts.

 

Oh... where are the ASMs and SM in all of this?

Troop Guides?

The BSA has a great program to be worked... but it takes work.

 

Don't let the boys down.

You got them in...now comes the work.

 

Jerry

I used to be a BEAVER...

and a Good 'ol BEAVER too

[Hunt 11]

"But I would say (generally) that if your New Scouts are not motivated, than the leadership has not done anything to motivate them or given them a program to be motivated about."

 

There is some truth to that, I think, and it's something that I hope will improve with some changes in boy leadership and in program. But there are issues with particular boys--a couple of the new scouts are not particularly interested in scouting or in the outdoors--but their parents are interested. So these boys show up (at least some of the time) but it is hard to get them to participate. I hope they will catch on as they see how much fun they can have. Several of them are going to camp, so I think that will help.

But what can you do when the Troop Guide urges the boy to bring his Handbook next week, and a adult leader reminds the parent that the boy should bring his Handbook next week--and the boy still doesn't bring it? (Or doesn't show up?)