The other end of the advancement curve

[John-in-KC 311]

The thread on the 12 1/2 year olds doing Life--->Eagle has me thinking about one of my Scouts. As a CC, I want to provide all the youth of my troop the opportunities afforded by Scouting.

 

I have a 17 year old, who transferred in this charter cycle. He's still Star. I think his parents are pushing him to stay in Scouting. BTW, no special needs are out there that I know of.

 

I've asked the SM to hold a SM conference with the young man. I'm then going to hold a BOR with him. I *think* I want to invite the parents to that BOR.

 

Not every Scout will achieve Eagle. That's a given. I just want to be certain the Scout and his family know the road in front of them, if he chooses to go forward. I also want to be sure he and they know the "mathematical elimination date" to do the work and get the Eagle SM conference done.

 

Have others of you encountered this? How have you dealt with the challenge?

 

TIA(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

[SemperParatus 1]

My opinion...

 

A 17 year old Star Scout. I think the decision has already been made.

 

A pleasant 'welcoming' conversation between you, the SM, him and his parents when he joins is appropriate. Maybe the question can be posed to him - what does he want to get out of his last year in scouting? If he mentions Eagle then the workload can be laid out in front of him. If he doesn't mention Eagle, then I would just let it go. Making a big deal about it with formal SM conferences and BORs to lay out a possible Eagle plan may be premature until the scout has been felt out on whether or not this is even on his radar scope.

[Hunt 11]

It all depends on how close to Life he is. If he's very close, and if he already has most of his MBs it may not be that hard for him to get his Eagle. Heck, he may have come from a troop that held him back, and he may be rarin' to go. Obviously, you have to sit down with him and figure out what the options are and what he wants to do. I think it's great to have the SC and a BOR, but I'd have the advancement coordinator talk to him TODAY. You'd hate to the clock to run out while you're trying to set up a BOR.

[SR540Beaver 116]

Some boys just don't care. In a troop we used to be involved in, we had a 17 year old Star. He could have easily finished if he had put forth the effort. He aged out and is now an ASM with the troop. He had been in scouting since Tigers. It was a shame and he may kick himself someday, but it was his decision.

[Eamonn 61]

Hi,

I would be concerned about a 17 year old transferring into a new troop because his parents are pushing him.

I kinda think the last thing that I would do would be to invite his parents to a BOR.

I haven't done the math and don't know if there is enough time for him to meet all the requirements needed for Eagle rank. I do think that he and he alone needs to set his own goals.

There is a fine line between supportive parents and pushy parents. Troop leaders are there to help and support each and every Scout. First Class Scout, should be the goal of the troop, but Eagle Scout is the goal of the Scout.

A 17 year-old Lad should be able to make up his own mind about what he wants to do or not do. The only person who really knows what he wants to do is the Lad himself.

Of course his parents may have their own reasons for wanting him to be in Scouting. It could be that he was running with a bad bunch or there might have been problems in the troop he came from. I would call the SM of the Troop that he came from.

There is a difference in providing the Lad every opportunity and making it happen. The person who needs to make it happen is the Lad, it needs to be his goal and his Eagle.

Eamonn.

[Sandyt888 10]

We have a 17 yo star scout who came to the sm's and stated he wanted to be an Eagle. We layed out a plan for remaining mb's and target dates. He is aware of the work required of him to complete the mb's, service projects, and POS. It was his choice and (right now) he's willing to put in the work. More power to him and we'll be there to support him.

[Eagledad 2777]

I think it's fine to learn more about this young man, but how about being less formal. Ask him to sit and have a coke with you and the SM. What you learn there would probably determine if you want to call his folks.

 

Sounds like you have a good program.

 

Barry

[eagle90 125]

Why the push? Let the scout himself decide if he wants to go forward. And if he doesn't, there's nothing wrong with that. I have had MANY boys stay in the troop all the way thru High School and never make Eagle. But each and every one of them learned a lot, had a good time, made a valuable contribution to the troop, and still come back to visit and reminisce about their Scouting experiences. It doesn't get any better than that.

 

DALE

[KoreaScouter 13]

I had a situation like this in a previous unit, except the boy was a 17 year old Life Scout transfer. He and dad came to a Troop meeting. I got the impression he was there because his dad insisted -- in the next six months, two meetings and no outings -- and wasn't interested in even Instructor responsibilities to help with the NSP. I smelled a rat, and in our conferences -- frequent and well-documented -- I told him he wasn't cutting it on Scout Spirit, but he was non-responsive and very measured in our conversations (read: coached by dad on what to say to me). Long story short: dad was waiting me out, playing both ends against the middle between our council and his last one (started his project there, wanted to finish it there, but we sign it off; did his leadership time there, but wanted us to sign off on it, etc.). I held firm, but I left two months before he aged out, and learned after I moved that my successor rolled over, signed him off, and got him an Eagle BOR before his 18th. He's now got the card in his wallet, but is more of a turkey than an Eagle in my book.

 

Lessons learned:

 

- 17 year old transfers should set off alarm bells. The orchestra's warming up, and you're probably about to be played like a violin.

 

- Who's got the agenda? Occasionally it may be the boy, but it's usually the parent(s). Watch out especially if one or both want to register as leaders, and ESPECIALLY if it's dad as ASM, and mom as Advancement chair! Can you spell Machiavelli?

 

- Get the records as soon as you can from the last District Registrar and/or a ScoutNet product; don't rely on the handbook and the blue cards (good idea for any transfer). I'll bet you'll find discrepancies, and you'll need as much time as possible to clear it up. Put the burden on the family to straighten out the records if possible. If they're doing something nefarious, they'll want any paperwork-induced delay to be your fault -- it'll bolster their appeal later.

 

- If you can, talk to the last unit SM or CC. They may be able to help you map the minefield.

 

- Make sure your Committee and SM (ASMs too) are singing from the same sheet of music. I've found that in this situation, parents will shop around leaders until they get the answer they want, then that answer becomes a club they'll beat you with.

 

I don't intend to come across as overly cynical. But, all you need is to witness this just once, and you'll be reminded that not all people are inherently good. It reminds me of what columnist Ann Coulter said recently: "...the last time somebody tried to take advantage of me like that, at least I got a steak dinner and a bottle of wine first."

 

Turn on your radars, John...

 

KS

[John-in-KC 311]

KS and all,

 

Thank you all for your input.

 

Because our Council has an internal honor camping organization (troop committee nominates), we had a special committee meeting last night. I made sure to invite Mom and Dad to the meeting.

 

The young man is not going with us to camp this year. When I called for a motion to advance this young man, his nomination died for want of a motion! His parents didn't show; indeed when I talked to them, my assessment was they wanted us to do all the work.

 

I won't write him off, neither will my SM nor I invest significant effort. It's his to decide, come mid-August, when he hits 17 years, 184 days, the decision is made.