Lynda J 10 Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 I was WDL. All 6 of my boys earned all activity pens. Most were done as a den. The ones that required them to be done on the scouts own I would sit down with the boy and discuss what he had done then sign off on the book. Link to post Share on other sites
anarchist 10 Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 clpagel "can't be" for instance???? P T F F...I hope you get some of your money back...why did your new pack charge full years dues????shouldn't that be prorata also??? finally, I sort of missed seeing the amount we are talking about here...den fees pack fees both? old PACK/DEN fees vs new PAC/DEN fees, are we talking real money here?? Link to post Share on other sites
Put Your Family First 10 Posted March 23, 2005 Author Share Posted March 23, 2005 Just to let everyone know, since we kept track of the belt loops my son did not receive but earned, we just went to the scout shop and picked them all up. When I spoke with the old scout leader yesterday, I let him know we picked up the belt loops, all he could say was our son did not earn them because he did not do those things with the den. I did remind him that our son did come in and present what he had learned with the den and according to the books, that was exactly what he needed to do and he earned all the belt loops we picked up. Our old den/pack went from September-August and normally it is February-January. Our new pack is February-January. We put in over $100 with the old pack, mainly for field trips for April until August, but the den/pack does not give the money to pay for the boys to the event until the day of the event. So technically we should receive the dues for Feb.-August the time we will not be with them (there is no den/pack rules on reimbursement at all for dues) and then everything we put into for the field trips we will not be attending with them. The old pack is not hurting for money and we thought this was only fair and then just give the money to the new den/pack. I hope this makes sense, I am doing a few dozen other things at once, multi-tasking. If it doesn't just let me know. Link to post Share on other sites
clpagel 10 Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 The activity badges I was referring to were mainly Family Member, Handyman, and Traveler. I also had almost of my scouts earn 100% of their activity badges. I had 6 out of 8 earn 100%. Link to post Share on other sites
molscouter 10 Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 The WDL can designate someone to sign for a particular activity pin, if he/she chooses. For example, for Readyman, one of my parent's was an RN and taught that portion of the badge for me. I had that parent sign off on the requirements for all the boys. The 3 that clpagel cited are examples of ones that the WDL could allow the parents to sign off on, or at least portions of them. But the WDL does not have to do this. Link to post Share on other sites
Put Your Family First 10 Posted March 23, 2005 Author Share Posted March 23, 2005 Ok, that makes sense, we did those 2 out of the den/pack also. Plus, the skiing, golfing, things like that. We could have done those with the pack, but for skiing, we would have to coordinate with 12 other families and drive 50 some or more miles. That would have been interesting. Link to post Share on other sites
anarchist 10 Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 clpagel, All three (of those activities) should be verified and signed off by the WDL not the parents...there are work sheets for recording what was done for these three activities and you could ask parents to verify some WDLs even administer written tests ...but if the boys bring in the work sheets and can share with you what they did as a den/patrol they share the adventure with their pals... and once again PYFF...confusion? you mention Skiing...I assume here you are talking belt loops, WEBELOS has no skiing activity pen...when you talk about 'those two as a family and golfing'????...some of us are talking rank activities and you seem to be talking about loops again...which are mostly extra curricular... Last do the pack fees include recharter monies??? (membership insurance and BOYSLIFE?) If so that is non-proratable but transferable for a buck.... which leaves about $79 minus 4 or five months ...$42-55 dollars back? Again good luck Link to post Share on other sites
Torveaux 10 Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 anarchist, Some of the new requirements include earning beltloops as part of a Webelos activity badge. Most used to be optional, but some are now required. Sportsman requires 2 belt loops from individual sports and 2 belt loops from team sports. Citizen requires that you earn the Citizenship Belt Loop. There are many others that have options for Belt Loops as well. As there is no requirement in the beltloops that they be done as a den, this WDL is unlawfully adding to the requirements. Family 1st, is there any chance you could get a 'note' from your old WDL about the belt loops. It sounded as if their problem was money and since you bought them yourself, he should not care. I see this as a much bigger issue than the $$. Link to post Share on other sites
anarchist 10 Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 Torveaux, sorry, but I hardily disagree, In the Webelos program the belt loop requirement is NO different than any other requirement of the total requirements for the particular Webelos activity pin/award. As with all other requirements the process is directed, scheduled and controled by the WDL and only the WDL. He or she may determine what evidence of completeion is necessary and you nor the parents have a lot to say about it. If the WDL wants the requirements done "in den", I see nothing in the book that says it is adding or subtracting...Most WDLs will accommodate almost anything...but it is up to the WDL not the parents to sign off on a Webelo activity requirement...which the belt loop becomes when using it as/for the webelos activity pin. Link to post Share on other sites
Put Your Family First 10 Posted March 25, 2005 Author Share Posted March 25, 2005 Hi anarchist, Just to let you know, I checked with area councel for our area and asked about the belt loops and what you posted was not completly correct. This is the info they gave us: Belt loops are awarded to boys who complete the three belt loop requirements in an academic subject or sport. Participation can take place individually or with the family, in the den or pack, or in the school or community. Academics belt loops are gold, and Sports belt loops are silver. Belt loops may be worn with the Cub Scout uniform on the Cub Scout belt. Webelos Scouts who have chosen to wear the khaki uniform may still wear the blue Cub Scout belt so as to display the belt loops they have earned. Many Webelos Scouts may earn belt loops and pins a second time to qualify for Webelos activity badges. All boys may earn belt loops more than once; however, leaders should encourage boys to try different requirements and earn the pin. Packs should have a clear policy in place to determine whether the pack or the boy's family will be responsible for the cost of awards that are earned more than once. Hope this clears some things up for everyone. Also, here is an update. Our area councel is going to work with the old den/pack to get the reimbursement. We were supposed to receive a little under $50 back, but we are only asking for $40. Since there is no rules in place with the old den/pack, the area councel said that they will reimburse. They will probably make a rule on this after we get the reimbursement so this does not happen again. Which is a great idea. Link to post Share on other sites
Torveaux 10 Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 I guess I will have to show you where the answers are in the book. Source 2003 edition Webelos Handbook. Page 10 "For projects that are done at home or with the family and are not easily transportable, the parent or guardian may still be asked to approve the Webelos Scout's completion of an activity badge." On page 71 it outlines the Academics and Sports program. "You can earn some of these awards along with your pack or den. You can earn some on your own or with your family or in your community." It goes on to specifically address the required and optional belt loops that apply to Webelos Activity Badges and makes no mention whatsoever about 'for these you need you WDL's approval'. Not a big issue for me as I will soon be my son's WDL, but if I was not, I would pull him out of a den with a WDL that was that unreasonable. The program is not designed that way. MOST of the program goes through the WDL, but he/she is not some dictator that rules over all aspects of the boys' advancement. It would be reasonable for the WDL to have the boy tell about his experiences earning the belt loops, but doing belt loops 'in den' is not prescribed at all. I've got the Cub Leader Book and the Webelos Leader Guide. Neither one says anything about Belt Loops being earned 'in den'. Link to post Share on other sites
nutz4scouting 10 Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 Does your pack have a unit commissioner? Or the old pack? They are like your laison between council & CMs,or SM. Link to post Share on other sites
Piedmont 10 Posted April 8, 2005 Share Posted April 8, 2005 ALL Webelos Pins earned must be completed in a den setting? What about Traveler, or the weekly Meal Plan in Fitness,or Family member, Scholar, etc.? I give mine a list of these "Summer Pins" (my term) to earn with their families, as that is what they seem to be clearly geared for. Same for Christmas or other holidays. I just have to trust my parents. I can't believe these types of pins can't be done by conscientious parents. Piedmont Link to post Share on other sites
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