BOR - question

[Greeneagle5 10]

Our SM insists on having Eagle Scouts and ASM's fill out Boards of Review for advancing young Scouts within our Troop. I've politely mentioned that this practice isn't quite kosher w/ BSA guidelines, but "His Majesty" says it's His executive priviledge ,especially when there are several Scouts to be reviewed in a short span of time. (He also has always selected the SAME in-Council Summer Camp,same dates, and campsite EVERY summer as His executive perogative without ever consulting with the PLC).

Does this happen in many Troops ? What's the appropriate action needed here ?

Frustrated but willing,

G5

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Well, he is in direct violation of the Advancement Rules and Regulations on the Boards of Review, but you probably knew that.

Your District Advancement Chair should be informed

 

I would ask in what BSA publication does it state that the Scoutmaster has "executive privilege" and can bypass the PLC.

 

now, for action, what does the committee chair say ? Do you have a PLC that functions in any manner?

 

As far as what goes on in other troops? From what I can see on this forum "tweaking" the program seems to be acceptable to many people so all I can say is, yes it happens, lots of things happen that are not in the program, but they happen all the same(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[Eamonn 61]

I like this idea of Executive Privilege. Have to write a note to myself to go find some.

As for the summer Camp thing, I have to admit that many if not most of the troops in our Council do this. Of course that doesn't make it right. The SM may need to get his vacation time posted at work or maybe this is the only week he can get off. So I can see a lot of reasons why the same time.

Our Council does put Troops under a certain amount of pressure to sign up for next years summer camp, before they leave this year. Some troops use summer camp for the younger Scouts, while the older Scouts go off doing high adventure activities.

Much as it hurts to have to say it, if the SM is doing this stuff and getting away with it, there is very little that is going to make him change.

The Advancement Committee, might inform him that what he is doing is not by the book, but in the end he will do what he is going to do.

Eamonn.

[Fuzzy Bear 12]

The BOR question is fairly straightforward and already addressed.

 

The choice of Summer Camps and Summer Camp spots may be a tradition that the SM would like to establish for himself. It may also make him feel secure and give him a sense of continuity that he needs at his stage in life.

 

The real fun for everyone is when parents get involved on the committee, committee functions, such as advancement and in support of a program that the Scouts have real choices in making. There are plenty of other decisions that need the SM's input. I can promise him, he won't be left out.

 

[acco40 95]

The BOR response by the SM is appalling.

 

As for the summer camp issue - here is the problem I face as SM. Our Council summer camp has incentives for reserving well over a year in advance. They include a guarantee for the same site as before (we have a prime location) and it actually is a "requirement" for some of the recognition patches they award. Therefore, someone (usually me) needs to make the decision of where the troop will spend summer camp well before our annual planning begins. Now I consult with the Scouts informally about where they would like to attend summer camp and everyone likes where we go now but ...

[WWBPD 10]

Sounds like symptoms of the bigger problem, which is the Scoutmaster has been allowed too much authority in the decision making processes of the Troop. The PLC and the Committee both need to reign him in on these two points (BOR violations and summer camp selection). It should be the Committee's job to do this (moreso than the PLC - I expect he would roll right over the PLC). CC and advancement chair need to point out the violation and that it will no longer be allowed - if he wants to fight them about it then we will have to let the council mediate. The summer camp issue has arisen because he probably puts in for next year before leaving the camp this year, and that all occurs before your planning for the next calendar year - you end up getting stuck. Again, if the majority of the scouts want to go somewhere else this needs to be communicated to the SM and he should be told not to make reservations in the future.

 

[FScouter 24]

Part of the purpose of a board of review is to give the boy an opportunity to relate to the board any problems, questions, and comments about his experience in the troop with boys, boy leaders, assistant Scoutmasters, Scoutmaster, etc. How can the boy bring up a comment about the Scoutmaster if the SM is sitting on the board? How can the committee learn about issues in the troop relating to the adult leaders, if the committee members aren't sitting on the board? How can they learn there may be a problem with the SM if the boys get "the look" from him during the review? For what reason is the SM insisting he sit on the board of review? Why would he want to do that, when BSA makes it abundantly clear that he must not?

[packsaddle 753]

I just learned that some troops in this district are allowing senior scouts to run BORs for the Tenderfoot rank. I was shocked to learn that this was discussed at roundtable and met with approval by all. I am at a loss for how to respond. I am outnumbered and probably outgunned on this one. Some help would be appreciated.

[Greeneagle5 10]

I agree with many posts........strong TC would solve and/or prevent many of these problems. Just found out today that 2 Star Scouts have been sitting, occasionally, on BoR also......several ASM's felt this would be good experience for them (???) The ASM's should know better.....Woodbadgers and hold district positions of responsibility.....keep wondering where they were during their training lectures.

On Camp......SM signed us up in early November (not at Camp last summer)........A strong Committee, again, would help in this situation .

Thanks for the good responses.......hopefully we'll carefully move towards change. New CC starts in January...I'm politely pushing for Committee to take appropriate Training ASAP .

G5(This message has been edited by Greeneagle5)

[EagleInKY 14]

Regarding SC, I have little to offer. I was assuming along the lines of the other posters, that it was decided a year in advance. When does the PLC do the annual plan? If they want to do something different, can they put that into their annual plan? Or, make a statement that "year after next, we want to consider attending a different summer camp".

 

Regarding the BOR... you do have an opportunity with a new CC coming up. We have a new CC that took over about six months ago. Recently, I faced a few problems with our TC as well. Nothing major, but it all revolved around them not understanding their role. After a string of e-mails and folks not understanding what was happening, I told the CC that this was why we needed to get the TC trained. He agreed. We did it last week. The CC, 4 of 8 committee members and one ASM attended. It was very enlightening to all of us. There were several "I'm supposed to do that?" moments. I believe it's going to pay positive dividends for our troop.

 

So, what I am suggesting is get your new CC on board and get the TC trained. There's lots of talk about the things you mentioned. If they see it in the BSA literature, they'll start asking questions like "why do we have boys on the BOR when it's our job?". Hopefully, you're problems will take care of themselves after that.

[Proud Eagle 13]

There are many thing which require over a year to plan properly.

 

In these cases having the PLC decide to do it at the annual planning meeting does't make sense.

 

Setting it as an objective for the future, and letting the adult leaders start making arrangments would be more reasonable.

 

Also, informal decisions such as asking everyone at camp if they want to come back to the same camp next year seems OK with me.

 

It should probably be made known to the PLC at annual planning that a reservation for such and such has been made, and if the PLC wants to do something else they can, but the troop will still be out the deposit.

 

The key thing is to make certain the PLC or the Troop are consulted BEFORE making a commitment, even if the consultation isn't quite as formal as a PLC planning meeting.

[Greeneagle5 10]

Proud Eagle,

 

I agree with your thoughts on Camp........forfeiting a deposit might be an option if the Troop wanted to explore new and exciting trails......the sad part of this whole equation is the SM doesn't allow the PLC ANY input or discussion before His actions are carried thru.

The Scouts are told where and when they're going to camp....like it or ???

 

Btw- this is the same old SM that occasionally addresses new Scouts on stage at their 1st Courts of Honor w/ " You'll Make Eagle or I'll Kill You !" Not very appropriate for a 58 y.o. in a leadership role in Scouting to say to an 11 y.o. youth....... especially in these troubled times, but that's another post.......................ugh !!

 

Thanks,

G5

[KoreaScouter 13]

BORs are a committee function; if they've abdicated their responsibility, your SM has filled a vacuum. Your committee needs to go to the store and buy a backbone.

 

As a SM, my only involvement with BORs is to make sure my Scouts are ready for them. I would never presume to appoint BOR members, especially ones who have no business there. Plus, if I tried to do that, I hope and believe that my CC and Advancement chair would tell me to get back in my lane.

 

Regarding the summer camp, if the lads are unhappy with the routine, they have three basic choices. Live with it, try to change it, or transfer to another unit. Nobody's a prisoner.

 

KS

[barrythebluebear 10]

As a new Advancement Chair in our troop, I noticed our SM had WAAYYY too much control over who sat on Board of Reviews. Sometimes he would (bad, very bad). I started asking troop committee (TC) members to sit. Though they were untrained, I would start each BoR with the "reminder" that the BoR was to help evaluate the troop program, as well. It was the only time we could hear how a boy felt about his patrol, the troop, and the program adults (SM, SA).

 

We started asking the boys about the "best" parts and the "not-so-good" parts, and what he thought could improve the troop.

 

This started several interesting discussions with the SM. The committee realized some changes would be easy IF the committee stayed on task. The SM was more than willing to do some changes, and either gave lip-service or outright refusal about others. The TC could insist, but it would probably result in recruiting a new SM. The TC is not going to go there (today).

 

Upshot, the troop has improved, other improvments have at least been talked about, the TC members now want to be trained, and the boys are getting a little more excited.

 

So I advise small steps till you are ready to take a big leap.

 

Yours in Scouting,

Barry

 

P.S. I'm going to start a seperate thread about who, when, and where to select summer camp.

[danscott 10]

I have a situation that I'd like some advice on. I have a scout who achieved his tenderfoot in april 05. Since then he has been working towards his second class and accomplished all of the requirements. He never received his tender foot patch from the troop. He was turned down for second class because he was not wearing the tenderfoot patch that the troop failed to give him. Is there an acceptable way to force the troop to proceed with the board of review for second class without the tenderfoot patch that they are holding on to?

He is to receive it at a court of honor next month.

 

DS