Board of Review vs. SM conference:

[Bob White 20]

Don't get me wrong, if the reason you want someone else to do your son's SC is because you want your son to be comfortable talking about his goals or his views on the values of scouting, I can see that.

 

But how can you show favoritism in a requirement that is not a pass or fail situation.

 

If a scout sits with you and says "I'm not trustworthy, or friendly to anyone, ever, and I have no interest in advancing", he still gets signed off on the Scoutmaster conference requirement. The scout is not required to satisfy the scoutmasters questions in any way. He is only required to have the conference.

 

How can you show favoritism in a requirement that can't be failed?

 

Bob White

[evmori 11]

Bob,

Everything is black & white for you isn't it? Well, in the real world there are a lot of gray areas and to me this is one of them.

 

I only counseled my son on one Eagle required merit badge. Why? Same reason. I wanted no perception of impropriety. There was none & I didn't want anyone to even think there was.

 

Just because it isn't in a BSA manual or publication doesn't mean it isn't the right thing to do.

 

Ed Mori

[Bob White 20]

Ed, quit making everything a personal dig. I'm just asking a simple question. This has no comparison to a merit badge or any other requirement in advancement. The rest all require the scout to prove a skill or action.

 

There is no qualification to meet in a Scoutmaster conference. There is no right or wrong, good or bad, the scout needs no knowledge of any skill. All the scout is required to do is visit with the scoutmaster. How can you show favoritism in that.

 

It is not as if you can visit with one scout better or worse than with another. All you are doing is recording that a visit took place. How can that be subjective? I'm not saying you can't let someone else do the conference, I just don't see favoritism as a logical reason.

 

Bob White

[Bob White 20]

Ed, quit making everything a personal dig. I'm just asking a simple question. This has no comparison to a merit badge or any other requirement in advancement. The rest all require the scout to prove a skill or action.

 

There is no qualification to meet in a Scoutmaster conference. There is no right or wrong, good or bad, the scout needs no knowledge of any skill. All the scout is required to do is visit with the scoutmaster. How can you show favoritism in that.

 

It is not as if you can visit with one scout better or worse than with another. All you are doing is recording that a visit took place. How can that be subjective? I'm not saying you can't let someone else do the conference, I just don't see favoritism as a logical reason.

 

Bob White

[dsteele 20]

Bob, Ed, caution tape surrounding.

 

This is a good thread led by a good question and inspiring good discussion. Let's not scare off folk who are just trying to get information after hours, during hours, or at their own leisure who are hoping to get and give the best program available for their youth through methods alternate to Scouting manuals.

 

In other words . . . kindly knock it off is my respectful request to you.

 

Thanks, guys. Feel free to continue debate, but please try to not worry about who said what but what was said.

 

Dave

[sst3rd 129]

Dave,

 

 

The Ed and Bob Show has been a long time favorite of mine, but is getting very predictable. Ratings are starting to slip, and with "sweeps" coming up so soon.

Someone stated that if all leaders of this board read, accepted, and executed from the BSA references, there'd be no need for this Forum. Bob thought that if we all did this, it would at least cut down on the traffic.

Some leaders, old and new, may not have access to current references, so why not ask HERE. Yes, Bob, we risk getting bad info but we will/should always verify it later. I know I do.

Anyway, to have traditions (Ed) of Scouting shot down by the current regs (Bob) of Scouting, does allow me to review our Troop's long time program. Honestly, we've had to make some corrections. I give the credit to both Ed and Bob, for creating the dialog that I can understand, and take back to our Troop leaders, youth and adult.

 

Thanks guys,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

sst3rd

[Eamonn 61]

I do tend to agree with Bob White that the stuff found in the handbooks and resources of the BSA, are the way to go.

Heck I have posted stuff in these forums that I at the time thought was on the money. Only to find that I was not.

(Please don't tell Her That Must Be Obeyed, that I ever owned up!!)

While I am being nice. I think that Bob does an outstanding job of providing references and the like. I know that it has saved me a lot of time. Not that I take his word for it. I still go to the book or where ever and check it out.

Ok, enough love - Back to the topic.

I am having a hard time with the idea that if a Scout has completed all the requirements for the rank why anyone would feel that a Scout is not suitable?

He has either done it or he hasn't.

So I am lost on that one.

As to the two scenarios.

If the loaded down Scout has done all the requirements and is doing his best. I think that he is a good Scout and an asset to the troop.

As to the "Goof Off" He must be doing something right if he has completed all the reqirements?

I might if I were the Scoutmaster ask him why he is acting this way?

I might look at the program and wonder if it was challenging enough?

Then again maybe that is just the way he is.

Does this make him a bad lad? I don't think so.

Some of the nicest Scouts that I have ever known have been a bit of a "Goof Off".

However in a lot of cases it was a ploy for attention.

I might talk with the SPL about finding him something to do.

I also think while the BOR is to ensure that he has completed all the requirements. That both the SC and the BOR are as much a place for encourgement as they are for anything else.

Eamonn

[andrewcanoe 10]

To stray off of the exact topic, how often should a BOR occur for a scout that is not advancing? ie: star in 2002, still not life

[NeilLup 13]

Hello Andrew,

 

Your question is a good and interesting one and, I believe, not explicitly covered in BSA literature.

 

To some extent, it depends on circumstances. Is the boy 12 or is he 16.5? Has he been earning merit badges, just not the right ones or has he not been earning anything? Has he been in a leadership position or not? Has he been active with the Troop, attending meetings and campouts or has he been absent? Has he been very active in other Scouting activities (like the OA) or has he been active in school activities (captain of the football team)?

 

The purpose of the BOR for non-advancing Scouts is, I believe, much the same as for advancing Scouts. It is to judge the Troop's program, the support given by leaders, etc. Is there something about the Troop's program which has resulted in the boy not advancing?

 

If you have not already done so, I would start of with a "Scoutmaster's Conference" for the non-advancing Scout. Find out the reason. See what you can do as SM to get him advancing. Then, if you are unsuccessful, I believe it is reasonable after 1-1.5 years to hold a BOR for a Star Scout to address his not becoming a Life Scout.

 

But advancement is only one method of Scouting, not an aim. If he is a good Scout and is benefitting from the program, please don't make him feel unwelcome if he chooses not to advance. We had a lodge chief of the OA in our council who turned 18 as a Star Scout. Great guy and a great Scout. He just chose to concentrate on elements of Scouting other than advancement.

[evmori 11]

Dave,

Will do. Sorry.

 

How can one show favortism in a SM conference? Easy! Don't do it & sign the book saying you did! This is also dishonest and I am in no way condoning this.

 

sst,

You're welcome.

 

Ed Mori(This message has been edited by evmori)

[Bob White 20]

 

 

After reaching First Class, most Scouts should advance about one rank a tear according to the BSA. Based on that having each Scout appear before a BOR at least once a year would seem reasonable.

 

It would seem to me to be far more unlikely that a scoutmaster didn't visit with a scout who lives in the same house than to imagine that they did visit. Remember this requirement is the scoutmaster documenting that he understands the scouts feeling about the troop, his understanding of scouting values and encouraging him to advance. I don't see how you can claim favoritism if a mom or dad say they know those things about their son.

 

In fact, if they didn't know I would be far more concerned.

 

Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Hunt 11]

Can a scout who is not advancing be required to appear before a Board of Review? Who can require him to do so?

[Bob White 20]

The BSA program. The Scoutmater Handbook explains that BORs should be done for scouts who are not advancing as well as for scouts who are, in order to discover the scouts needs and motivation and help make scouting better for him.

BW

[acco40 95]

Gentlemen, in my original post my wish to have others give my son a SM conference was not to remove any signs of favoritism. The purpose of the SM conference is to get to know the Scout, something as his father I already do. Having a SM conference with me would serve no purpose for me. However, I like what one suggested, I could give him an additional one because it may serve a purpose for him. I also think it serves a purpose for him to have a SM conference with an adult who is not his father. It is very hard for most youth to separate father from Den Leader or Scoutmaster. Similarly, it is difficult sometimes to separate Scout from son!

[Twocubdad 665]

I was just going to make that very point, Acco. I've been my son's leader all the way through the program. I look for opportunities for him to interact with other leaders, even though I should officially be his contact. He and I have a rule that when ever possible, he is to go through his Asst. Webelos leader to sign off requirements.

 

That was a good lesson learned from my old Scoutmaster. Although the local lodge begged him to join the OA an get involved as an advisor, he refused. OA was the one thing in Scouting his son did without him and he didn't want to horn in on that, too.

 

Working with adults is one of the eight methods. As leaders we need to make sure our own sons don't get short-changed on that one.