When is enough, enough?

[Lisabob 13]

Right, Ed. Changes need to happen. The more I've thought about it and as I've read through all the responses, I've come to realize that my question is fundamentally: Given that I am one voice in about thirty, and often a voice in the wilderness at that, how can I increase the probability that those changes take place?

 

I realize that I cannot simply go in with guns blazing and lay down the law. Approaching this situation like that has a very high likelihood of backfiring. Not only would that probably mean that the specific matter at hand would not be resolved in a manner to my liking, but also that it would be harder to get the attention of the people who are in positions to make changes on other issues, in the future.

 

I didn't mean what I wrote in my previous post as a criticism directed at ScoutFish. I really appreciate his or her input and time, and actually I think I agree with the sentiment in ScoutFish's post. If anything, ScoutFish has helped me figure out what my concerns are, and how to better communicate them.

[Stosh 3452]

I have always used Speed Lea's 6 levels of conflict to resolve the problems I have often faced.

 

If one cannot define the problem they cannot solve it. What seems to be happening here is that the problem is beginning to be defined and yet there are those who have chosen not to deal with it. This does not create a second problem, it only adds to the first. Instead of having the problem of boys bullying others, we now have a problem of adults allowing boys bullying others.

 

Adults ignoring a problem is tacit approval of it. Now, the PLC may wish to address the issue of boys bullying others, but from the description of the problem, they are attempting to solve the whole problem by addressing only part of it. Good luck! One cannot cure a situation by only masking the symptoms of a deeper lying problem.

 

It's not a matter of one person blaming another, the environment in which bullying takes place is often times the catalyst for the behavior. If there's a long stretch of straight road for the next 50 miles and not towns, and no traffic, aren't we all tempted to push the pedal a little further closer to the floor boards? And if we get away with it for a while, the next time the temptation appears, it's that much easier to go along with it.

 

Being reactive to a problem such as this means that for a long time, not being proactive has created an environment where this behavior has been routinely overlooked. As with any behavior, unless identified and nipped in the bud, it will only become more frequent to the point where people actually can justify it by, "We've always done it that way and nobody's really gotten hurt."

 

Every boy that comes into my troop gets a SMC at the end of his Scout Rank achievement. It basically goes: "If you are threatened or feel threatened by anything that happens in Boy Scouts, you come to me and I'll correct it. If I don't listen, you go to an ASM or CC/CM and tell them. IF they don't listen you tell your parents. If they don't listen you call the police." I also at the TF SMC re-emphasize this and expand it to include things at school and at home. As I develop an environment of trust with these boys it is my responsibility to assist them in learning and developing in a safe environment. A Scout is Trustworthy. If I can't be that for everyone of my boys, then I as SM/CA am not leading by setting a very good example.

 

I had one new boy come to me after a few months and say he was afraid of one of the older boys. This is level 3 conflict. 1) there's a problem, 2) it's undefined, and 3) someone's to blame. I asked the older boy what he was doing to intimidate the younger boy (flat out and in his face!) He didn't know. I sat the two boys down and we talked about it. (Level 3 is addressed) The younger boy admitted it was mostly because he didn't have to deal with high school aged boys and it was scary (Level 2 is addressed) The older boy suggested that the new scout be his buddy at the next campout so he could get to know him better. (Level 1 is addressed) They hit it off and I'm thinking the new boy now has a new "older brother" he never had and was enjoying it a lot. Not only that whenever the new boy felt threatened by other older boys, he now had a "older brother" who would help him out as needed.

 

Group dynamics is a fluid thing, but as an adult one has to constantly be vigilant to any waves going on that inhibit the progress of the program in place. The minute one leaves the door open for just a second, the temptation is there to push that pedal a little closer to the floor boards! Heck, we as adults do it, why wouldn't the boys?!

 

Stosh

[Scoutfish 16]

Lisa, I did not mean to imply you had no backbone.

 

What I was saying, what I am saying now is this: get those parents who have the "But what can we do?" together. Show them exactly what I posted for you. Hell, get out your book and you probably can find even more.

 

THis is how to handle it.

With these specific reguilations of Scouting...there is no back and forth. There is no "what if they try this?" or "what if they don't like it?"

 

The rules and regulations are very clear. They are not up for popular vote or "how much do they really mean?".

They are solid.....or at least solid enough in this case.

Maybe the CM or CC is okay with things. Time to get all those parents, scouts and whover else together and say (as a group) let the Scouts stand up and say : "This is OUR troop! It will run as OUR troop or we will see that it folds!

 

Be prepared to co to DE, Council, National or even the CO and dp just that.

Fora kid on his last year,it may be alot of trouble, but for a first year scout, and any potential future scouts..it is very well worth it!

[Mafaking 10]

 

Lisabob thanks for posting these actual occurrences inside your unit. They are of great value.

 

Most seasoned posters here have long since stopped posting their units current trials and tribulations. I think many seasoned poster are unwilling to state that their unit is not perfect or are unwilling to take the criticism usually directed at the poster for not doing all they could. That and many posters are no longer associated with a specific unit.

 

Too often the circumstances are beyond the actions of one individual. It would take the persuasive voice of a John Adams to change the made-up minds of other adults in a Scout Troop. Blood feuds are drawn over the silliest things.

 

I think the first question is do you take action?

And the second is in what form.

And finally to what degree. (coffee or scorched earth) I my opinion neither of these extremes work all that well. So its somewhere in the middle.

 

Good luck

and thanks again.

 

 

[Eagledad 2779]

You know Lisa, I really appreciate your passion and hard work that you have given to the program. I hurts me to read your post about the struggles in your troop because I've notice they basically have the same theme of the adults not acting very adult. You seem to be the lone voice of reason and I hate that someone like you has to deal with it. I wish you the very best in how you approach this situation because I can see it will be very difficult.

 

Barry

[Oak Tree 15]

Lisabob,

 

I too find you to be a voice of reason and would be happy to have you serve on my committee. But given your lone position as Cassandra in the troop, I don't know how much influence you can expect to have.

 

I would normally recommend starting with the Scoutmaster. He's going to have to be on-board with any decisions. If you don't think he'll be receptive, you may have better luck with the SPL. He may be in the best position to make something happen.

 

I doubt you can get the guys thrown out for "eating someone's chips", as the Scoutmaster says. Probably the best you can hope for is some type of probation. Now, if the Scouts can come up with an impressive enough list, maybe they can get some such action to be taken. Have any Scouts left the troop because of these guys? Are any of the guys willing to go in and testify at the committee meeting and break down in tears describing the abuse they've taken? I think that would pretty much do it. But short of that - the SPL could ask the Scoutmaster to talk to all of the complainants, and see what he finds out.

 

Somehow, you have to find an ally in here.

 

I too thank you for posting the problem. I'm sure it's common for parents to want to change things, but not know where to start. And as Mafaking points out, people are often reluctant to post because of all the potential criticism. Even though you specifically said you weren't looking for comments on the troop's past practice, you got them anyway.

 

Good luck.

[Basementdweller 608]

Cold night reading posts.

 

The main problem is a precedent of tolerating poor behavior.

 

Lisa....I have to ask what exactly is a desirable outcome for you? Kicking them out of scouting, Probation, Suspension, Blocking their eagle or behavior corrected??? When I enter a fight I want to know exactly how to determine a desirable outcome.

 

As mentioned earlier you need to define the problem and YOUR desired solution.

 

Time for a come to Jesus meeting with the entire troop. Letting the entire group know this behavior is over. of course you need the SM, CC on board.

 

Do you get the sense they are still being protected?

What personal cost are you willing to pay?

Are you willing to have your son pay that cost?

 

[Brian85 10]

Lisabob let me start out by saying how much I enjoy your posts.

Everyone has given some great advice, and you have probably moved on to better topics, but I would like to add my two cents.

Everyone seems to have quoted this and that, and stated what should be happening and what the CC and SM could do, I even read the thank you post. I will tell you that the only correction to enough is enough is when every boy decides that they are tired of it. The best solution will be when the boys in the troop all confront the 2 troublemakers and just "lay down the law." Peer Pressure will prevail, if and only if the troop provides a unified front. I hope that all the discipline issues have been documented and the two can honestly answer if they live according to the Scout Law. Like you said, a different topic. The core group will prevail, if they each provide cover for themselves. Peer Pressure is the most powerful tool when dealing with this issue. It cannot be started by the Adult Leadership, but it has to come from the boys themselves. Is it easy, of course not. Does it provide a life's lesson, YES. We can quote every leadership book, try techniques, and nothing will ever beat the power of your Peers.

I keep reading your original post and get more and more upset when I read it. It is upsetting that it has been allowed to continue. The laundry list of previous issues needs to be addressed. Eagle92 is completely correct in his very first response.

Good luck and please continue all of your great topics flowing.

[Engineer61 19]

"The troop's adult leadership has not responded very forcefully in many past incidents (much to my annoyance)."

 

I think this is the fundamental problem in may Scout Troops. The concept of "Boy Led" equating to "Boy Governed" or "Boy Controlled".

 

IMO...that should clearly not be the case...there must be clear boundaries where the Adults take over.

[Lisabob 13]

Enough has become enough for me. I'll be taking some time off from involvement in scouting. I just can't deal with some of it any more, and I won't be associated with adults who continually make excuses for outrageous behaviors, rather than standing up and addressing the problems.