How to stop lying?

[oldsm 10]

I have one young man in my troop who seems to have a problem with telling the truth. Not that I've seen it in him more than in any other boys, but I recently got the other side of the story from the boy's dad. Here's some background.

 

This scout just came back from a weekend LNT Trainer course - the first in our troop to have done this. The troop is going camping this weekend and he was looking forward to beginning to train the troop on LNT techniques. I think he would have done a great job. He is enthusiastic about it. This week he told me he couldn't go camping this weekend because his parents wouldn't let him. (The parents have been very supportive of the troop and like what it has done for him. It's his only extra-curricular activity - no sports, no job, etc.) I asked to speak with his Dad after the meeting.

 

Dad (actually, step-dad) filled me in on the long-term problems that they have with the lad. Dad is old-school from another culture where if you misbehaved your parents made you wish you hadn't. But he said he's tired of yelling and is at his wit's end. He said it's almost a relief when his son goes camping with us because they get some peace and quiet at home (the lad can be a bit over-enthusiastic on camping trips). His wife is fed up with the boy's lying and is the one who lowered the boom on this weekend. Apparently, the immediate issue has to do with some schoolwork that wasn't done, and then the make-up wasn't done, even though the boy said it was. The mom is in weekly contact with his teachers (high school). I do know that he had some major difficulties with academics last year, but he went to summer school and has pretty much been on target this year to get straight A's (confirmed by Dad). So when mom got info from the teachers and confronted her son, and he made it sound he didn't have a problem, Mom went ballistic.

 

Now, I'm not going to try to get the parents to relent about this weekend.

There will be more opportunities for the boy to teach LNT. I told Dad that I absolutely will support their decisions - it's not my place to tell them how to raise their son. BUT, I really like this kid and think he has a lot of potential that needs to be developed. I'd like to think that if he could just follow the scout law - especially "trustworthy" - that he could straighten things out. It's one thing to talk about what trustworthiness means, but often a different thing to put into practice.

 

I am looking for concrete ways that I, as SM and a person he looks up to (so I'm told by his parents), can help this boy control his propensity for lying. Suggestions for resources? Appropriate books that a 10th-grader would pick up and actually read? Words of wisdom? Is this something where there needs to be either individual or family counseling? School counselors here are worthless (I know from experience), so that's not an option. (As far as I know, this is NOT an abuse situation. Dad works full time, Mom is stay-at-home with a pre-school daughter, and there have been no indications of physical or mental abuse.)

 

Sorry about the length of this, but I wanted to provide some flavor for the situation. Thanks for your comments.

 

[dg98adams 18]

The only thing I would add, is that if the Troop paid for the LNT course, then I would consider asking the mother if he can attend only to to do the training, then not be permitted to stay and have fun with the group.

 

That would let him fulfill the Troop expectation, and abide by the parental restriction. Another way to look at it, by keeping him from scouting, mom runs the chance of loosing leverage. He can just quit to spite the restriction.

 

So, at this point, if the outing is close enough and you feel you can chat with the mom about he LNT responsibility to the Troop, you could try that.

 

[evmori 11]

How to stop lying. A little story.

 

On a cabin camping trip, the seven Scouts that were along left the cabin to go fill up the water jugs. The pump was located out of eye sight & ear shot. There was a front loader and tractor located in the field beside the pump. The ASM and myself (SM at the time) told the Scouts to stay off the equipment. When the Scouts left the ASM & I started to make our lunch. About 10 minutes later, here comes one Scout back to the cabin. When asked why he was back, he said "Matt pushed me off the tractor." to which I responded "Who else was on the tractor?" and the Scout replied "Everyone but me." There was a little more discussion and about 10 minutes later the rest of the Scouts returned. I asked them all to sit down and looked at Matt and asked "Did you push Roy off the tractor?" Matt looked at his shoes then the rest of the Scouts and said "Yes I did." I then started with the Scout to my left and asked each one individually if they were on the tractor. One by one they responded with only Bob saying "No." I then asked Matt if everyone was on the tractor to which he replied "Yes." I then re-asked Bob if he was on the tractor and he looked at his shoes and sheepishly said "Yes." I asked him why he lied when I first asked hem and he said "Because I didn't want to get into trouble." to which I replied "Well are in trouble. The Scouts that told the truth are finishing the weekend trip. I am calling your mom to come pick you up right now. I don't condone lying."

 

We never had a problem in out unit with lying during my tenure as SM.

[Stosh 3452]

"Matt pushed me off the tractor." to which I responded "Who else was on the tractor?" and the Scout replied "Everyone but me."

 

How does one get pushed off a tractor that they weren't on?

 

Stosh

[boomerscout 35]

Since the troop paid for the LNT training, I would ask the Mother for a refund. Ha-Ha!

 

Lying seems to be part of the human condition as even adults do it. For some reason, lying seems to be the fist method of choice in problem avoidance (1st stage denial, 2nd stage anger/acting out...). Therapists tell us that nothing happens in a vacuum. If one family member has problems (ex: lying), then other family members have complementary problems (Mother's chronic lack of trust, chronic accusatory nature & probably chronic fearfulness of life in general).

Since the Scout is a near-A student, I'm sure he can understand what he reads. I would grab a high-school psychology text, find the section on coping mechanisms (denial, anger/acting out, bargaining... and have him read it. Discuss it with him. Then ask him why many Native-American tribes thought falsehood was a worse crime than murder. You can't do much more than this, or the problem may blow up in your face as the parents decide you interfere too much in their family life.

From a different website: "Anger stage

Disciplines > Change Management > The Kbler-Ross grief cycle > Anger stage

 

Symptoms | Treatment | See also

In the Kbler-Ross Grief Cycle, the third stage is one of outraged anger. In order, the stages are: Shock, Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Testing, Acceptance.

 

Symptoms

The next step after denial is a sudden swing into anger, which often occurs in an explosion of emotion, where the bottled-up feelings of the previous stages are expulsed in a huge outpouring of grief. Whoever is in the way is likely to be blamed. In a company this includes the managers, peers, shareholders customers and suppliers. The phrase 'Why me?' may be repeated in an endless loop in their heads. A part of this anger thus is 'Why not you?', which fuels their anger at the those who are not affected, or perhaps not as seriously so.

 

Treatment

When they are angry, the best thing you can do is give them space, allowing them to rail and bellow. The more the storm blows, the sooner it will blow itself out.

Where anger becomes destructive then it must be addressed directly. As necessary, you may need to remind people of appropriate and inappropriate behavior. Reframe their anger into useful channels, such as problem areas and ways to move foreword.

Beware, when faced with anger, of it becoming an argument where you may push them back into denial or cause later problems. Support their anger. Accept it. Let them be angry at you.

 

See also

Coping Mechanisms

 

Elisabeth Kbler-Ross, On Death and Dying, Macmillan, NY, 1969"

Sounds like this kid gets a lot of grief at home, and needs better coping mechanisms.

 

[artjrk 11]

Stosh

 

Of course everyone was on the tractor but him. He was pushed off.

 

ouch.

[Stosh 3452]

But of course, how foolish of me to think like an adult.

 

LOL

 

Stosh

[evmori 11]

My ASM & I got a chuckle out of the whole situation! When Bob's mom showed up about an hour later to pick him up the 1st thing she did was whack him upside the head and say "What's wrong with you?" Then she sat down & had a cup of coffee with us & we had a great chat!