Novice_Cubmaster 10 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Hi all. What can happen when the serious boys in a troop no longer like the program put on by the adult troop leaders? For example, if the troop shifted from boy-led to adult-led? Can they "mutiny"? What would happen if they went on a troop campout, and organized themselves into functioning patrols & did as much as they could in a boy-led fashion? (Envision the SM having a "Captain Queeg moment...) Probably an unrealistic fantasy, though. If the boys were that unhappy, they'd split (or form a crew). NC Link to post Share on other sites
NealOnWheels 73 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 As a scout some 30 years ago I was a Senior Patrol Leader of a troop that was run by the Scoutmaster. I got a hold of a book I believe was called the "Junior Leader's Handbook" and had an epiphany. I discovered that there is something called a Patrol Leader's Council that plans and carries out troop meetings and outings. About the same time the Scoutmaster went to Florida on vacation for a few months. The first couple meetings after the Scoutmaster went on vacation the Assistant Scoutmaster did nothing and all we did was sit around and do nothing. I then organized PLC meetings and planned troop meetings and activities and we all had a very good time doing more than what we every had in the past. When the Scoutmaster returned from vacation we had a meeting planned but when we walked in the Scoutmaster announced that he was very unhappy with how the troop was run while he was gone. He then said he was going to "go over" the first x pages of the handbook and explain how a troop was to run. Things then reverted back to the way things were before. In retrospect this put the Scoutmaster and myself at odds and likely cost my chances of being an Eagle Scout. I had a Life board of review go bad because I supposedly did not show "Scout Spirit". Eventually I left this troop for another. Other Scouts left Scouting all together. I am not sure it is a wise idea for youth to mutiny. Rather concerned adults should take on the role if possible to make change. I don't look back at this experience as a negative. As an adult leader I have an intense zeal to not only allow but challenge scouts to lead. Link to post Share on other sites
Kudu 186 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 NealOnWheels writes: "In retrospect this put the Scoutmaster and myself at odds and likely cost my chances of being an Eagle Scout. I had a Life board of review go bad because I supposedly did not show 'Scout Spirit'." This is the downside of making Eagle Scout (and all BSA Advancement) about "values" rather than Scoutcraft SKILLS and Public Service SKILLS, as in "Once an Eagle, always an Eagle." In Baden-Powell's understanding of Scouting there are NO "Scout Spirit," "Scoutmaster Conference," or "Board of Review" Advancement requirements. These (in addition to required school work Merit Badges) are designed to keep Scouting adult-run, and date back to BEFORE the BSA discovered the Patrol Method. Scouting is a Game, NOT a Purpose. Kudu Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 YES, YES, YES! I wish they would! I've been waiting for some time to have my boys get off their butts and lead! The more they mutiny the better off I am as a SM, it means they are taking over their responsibility, developing their leadership, expressing their development, and basically running the show. I'm tired of being Capt. Bligh. If I had Nealonwheels in my troop I'd have done cartwheels! How does one inspire an epiphany in the boys! If one actually evaluates the issue, is it not proper to say that in most troops today the BSA program of boy-led, patrol-method has been commandeered by mutious ADULTS that have taken the program away from the boys? The last time I checked the name of the program is BOY Scouts of America, NOT ADULT Scouts of America. Ownership of the program belongs to the boys, adults, get out of the way and let the boys lead!!!! Remember adults, if you are not part of the solution, you must be part of the problem! Stosh Link to post Share on other sites
Gunny2862 11 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 In the direction you mention... I wish they would. - My problem is that I'm trying to help them get away with it but they aren't taking the hint. Or maybe I shouldn't let them think it's okay and try crushing their little souls under my gauntleted repressive socialist fist and see if that will start the rebellion(Viva la Scouting!)... ah ha ha, ha ha ha, aha ha ha ha ha ha ha ... Link to post Share on other sites
2eagles 10 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Unfortunately, Scouts run into the "I'm an adult you're a kid" therefore I know more nanana attitude with adults, within the troop. However, being one who is currently hanging on to the tiger's tale in what you could describe as a mutiny -- boys want to start crew (oh, I found out that they brought up a venture patrol with SM but were told that would just take them away from the younger scouts so no. Back to the tiger in full run -- 30 emails, lost track of # text messages -- in need of snorkle for a breath -- STOSH if the light comes on HOLD ON. It is wonderful and scary to see boys I have know since cubs evolve. Just doing the have you? type list they said yep, yep, yep, here are minutes and other info. My mouth is still open. Now they are talking about a back trip to Cloud Peak as a big trip. Cloud Peak! So glad they picked one of the hardest treks - maybe they can just bury me there. I have moved to the hall of irrevelency ahhh to the hall of just enjoy. Link to post Share on other sites
Sarge 10 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 'What would happen if they went on a troop campout, and organized themselves into functioning patrols & did as much as they could in a boy-led fashion?' I'm just a rookie wolf cub leader, so I may be ignorant to these things. But aren't BS patrols supposed to be boy led? Seems to me that the Webelos leaders are focusing on transitioning the boys into handling more of the responsibilities and decision making while serving more as advisors to prepare them for how BS works. Am I misinterpreting what is happening here? Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Yes you are. If one prepares the boys for boy-led, patrol-method scouting, more often than not they're going to get the traditional adult-led, troop-method where the adults make all the decisions and run all the programs. Find a non-traditional troop where the taught program of BSA is actually in some vague disguise is actually being attempted. If one ever runs into a SM that spends 90% of his/her time keeping the parents from interferring with the boys, one might have a winner. Stosh Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2777 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 >>Back to the tiger in full run -- 30 emails, lost track of # text messages -- in need of snorkle for a breath -- STOSH if the light comes on HOLD ON. It is wonderful and scary to see boys I have know since cubs evolve. Just doing the have you? type list they said yep, yep, yep, here are minutes and other info. My mouth is still open. Now they are talking about a back trip to Cloud Peak as a big trip. Cloud Peak! So glad they picked one of the hardest treks - maybe they can just bury me there. I have moved to the hall of irrevelency ahhh to the hall of just enjoy. Link to post Share on other sites
shortridge 184 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 They could also just quit, and go camping on their own. Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 If adults were not interfering with what the boys were wanting to do in Scouting, why would they quit? Stosh Link to post Share on other sites
shortridge 184 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 jblake - I was responding to the original post, which stated that the adults were indeed interfering. Yeah, they could mutiny, but they'd be more likely to quit, in my experience. Link to post Share on other sites
2eagles 10 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Ooooo I may have oops. I mentioned this question "Can Scouts Mutiny" to the Core group of the Venture crew that we are forming last night. They promptly replied it was usually a no win for the scout - adults mad they are challanged and if successful, adults still mad because they were challanged. However, then they started talking about all these boys who left scouting do to adult interference -- mutiny -- we may have a revolution. They have decided to contact the scouts they know and ask if they are interested in a Boy Lead Crew (with two old but young in mind advisors{does this mean I have demetia})- they also said the scout coming in will have to carry his weight. The sad part was the # of scouts names that were rolling off their tongues. When I asked why didn't the guys switch troops -- the response equaled what Eagledad said -- they didn't want change So Here We Go! Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh 3452 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 Sorry, I just can't get my mind around how scouts can mutiny against their own program? Maybe the question should be: "Is it Okay for boys to take back their program after adults have shanghaied it?" If the boys are starting a new crew, lay down the ground work as: the boys run the show. If the advisor(s) don't like it, find other advisors. Keep up this process until the CO finds adults willing to go with the BSA program of youth-led (Venturing) boy-led (Scouting). If this can't come together in the arena of discussion, then it's time to find other programs for the boys to do because there's not going to be real leadership developed in the boys anyway. Stosh Link to post Share on other sites
Eagledad 2777 Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 >>Sorry, I just can't get my mind around how scouts can mutiny against their own program? Maybe the question should be: "Is it Okay for boys to take back their program after adults have shanghaied it?" Link to post Share on other sites
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