How do you get Boy Scout parent to butt out

[Gonzo1 10]

This weekend our troop particiapted in a crossing over ceremony and the pack had family camping behind the church at the same time. We got 4 new scouts and all seem enthusiastic.

 

Here's the problem. Sally is COR (really acting as ACM also), her son Billy helped put on the event. As a "reward" for Billy, Sally told him he could sleep in a church building instead of a tent. When I and the other ASM asked why he was staying inside instead of a tent, he said his mom said he could. Sally overheard and told the other ASM, "I'm his mom and I told him he could stay in here. He worked hard and I said so, that's it."

 

On Beavah's advice to go slow, I wisely chose not to enter the fray, however, how can ASM (and the weak SM) keep parents from interefering? I know what I WOULD say, but I'd like to hear from the forum.

 

Thanks,

 

Gonzo

[local1400 10]

Thats a toughie G. Obviously she is unaware of the patrol method, how it works, and Boy Scouting in general. It's high time she learned.

[Gonzo1 10]

She thinks she's a mom who knows. she's on the Troop Cmte too. She and parents lke her don't know that they allow their son to set a bad example AND disrupt patrol method and thumb their nose at the youth and adult leadership.

 

So, what to do?

 

 

 

[packsaddle 753]

There are several ways to address this, starting with a friendly reminder of the way the program and methods work. I surmise that this, however, has been ineffective...a fairly common result if the person is opinionated.

 

I think you were right to take it easy. Going head-to-head is likely to merely drive a strongly opinionated person deeper into their wrong-thinking. One way to circumvent this problem in the future without a direct confrontation is to combine the numerous camping skills necessary for this kind of campout into a patrol contest. If the scoring is structured such that the patrol loses points for each member who doesn't demonstrate the skills then peer pressure might provide the constructive force you need. Mom will be overuled by her son.

 

A more direct way to address the problem is through the committee. Every member of the committee as well as the troop leadership should receive training. If the training is effective this will convey the message regarding 'boy led', etc. The committee at present evidently doesn't understand the program or the method and they lack the knowledge needed to identify the problem, much less address it.

By itself, however, training will not outweigh strong, opinionated personalities especially if they are in a parent of one of the boys.

To reinforce the message, we once invited a couple of leaders from a very successful program to visit and offer pointers and comments. If you prompt them ahead of time regarding the problems they can provide 'independent' comments that provide the needed reinforcement.

If the committee as a whole understands the program and the method, then the committee will be better able to address this particular problem. But it will take some care to change her mind without conflict.

[Beavah 205]

Yah, hard question, Gonz. Nuthin' but random ideas below.

 

Take boys on trips to places without mom (especially to places where mom doesn't want to go). Distance is often the easiest.

 

Give other boys more fun and special opportunities in return for sleeping outside (late night stories & smores after Billy's inside?). Recognize the kids who slept out with a special award at the end of the day, and again at the next COH or troop event. Make it obvious that Billy "misses out" on opportunities and recognition if he's doing the "mama's boy" thing.

 

Ask mom why Billy is being punished by being made to sleep indoors. Alternately, ask mom if Billy needs a ride home because he is too sick to sleep out. There are other permutations to think of, eh? "Sally, does Billy have a bedwetting problem? We often find that boys who are a bit afraid to sleep outside have something like that holding them back, but we can work with them so it's perfectly OK and not embarrassin' at all." The point is an indirect way of showin' mom how her action is perceived by others, and how willin' you are to help. And yeh might find that there is somethin' real holding Billy back, which your promptin' brings to the surface.

 

Beavah

 

 

 

[Gonzo1 10]

Packsaddle and Beavah,

You two hit it on the head.

I especially like the bedwetting comment.

Billy is OK, but the mom thought she was rewarding him for his hard work getting things ready for the B&G and crossing over.

 

Training on the patrol method is on the way and the next time this scenario presents itself, I'll be armed with goodies after the mama's boys go to bed.

 

To paraphrase Barry, I love this forum stuff (and of course the scouting stuff)

 

Gonzo

[evmori 11]

So mom's on the TC. Hmmm. Maybe a reminder that Boy Scouts is for the boys not the moms & dads. The moms & dads are there for support & guidance but the boys run the program & if her son isn't "with" the boys, he is missing out on valuable Troop & Patrol time with his unit.

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10

[msnowman 10]

As a WDL & CM, my advice to our soon-to-be Boy Scout parents is to "stay away" from camping trips (not troop meetings) for the first year. This gives their boys time to become "one of the guys" without having mom or dad there to bail them out. One of my Webelos father is like "Billy's" mom - "no, you don't have to do it Son, I'll do it for you". For his son to really be a part of the troop when he bridges Dad pretty much is going to have to stay away because geez Son sure knows how to manipulate Dad.

 

And yes, I practice what I preach - Nephew has been a Boy Scout for 2 years and my participation on camping trips amounts to dropping him off at the meeting place at the assigned date and time. Okay, so if they are at a local camporee I usually swing by, visit with the SM for a minute, say hi to the boys and then leave. Now that he knows he can do it himself, he has asked me if I'll go to Klondike next winter with them as one of the adults.

 

YiS

Michelle

[Hunt 11]

Depending on his rank, this might help: "But of course, if he sleeps inside this won't count as a night of camping for advancement or for the Camping Merit Badge."

[ScoutNut 147]

I think Hunt's suggestion might actually work the best.

 

Bring the boy & his mom together & let them know (just as a casual FYI kind of thing) that he can not count sleeping inside the church toward ANY of the camping related requirements. If they question this (and I am sure they will!), tell them that it is because it was not a part of the BOYS camping plan & the rest of his patrol was sleeping in tents outside. Reassure them that if the BOYS had planned the camping as a lock-in in the church that would be a different story.

 

Maybe this will get the message across.

[Gonzo1 10]

I mentioned to the other ASM that I was disappointed that some of the boys were sleeping in the building. I also said that the night shoudl NOT be counted for camping MB. The other ASM said that the SM would probably allow it.

 

 

Since camping MB has been discussed here recently, I quoted the chapter and verse about sleeping in a tent the scout pitches (or helps pitch) or under the sky for 20 nights and that tents set up at summer camp are OK, but only one week and that adironacks and church buildings are not tents. The other ASM couldn't comment, he only said, "oh well, he allows it"

 

I guarantee, he will not allow it anymore.

 

Thanks for the comments.

 

 

[epalmer84 10]

If it wasn't for parents, we wouldn't have Scouts.

 

It is always a balance. Parents have every right to participate in the program (see below), but we should also expect them to allow their sons to participate fully as well. The parents of new Scouts need to be educated to understand what they should and should not do in the program. Our troop has a parent orientation before we have a crossover- this seems to help quite a bit.

 

If this parent is the COR and on the committee, then she definitely needs to be educated. As COR or committee, she is an administrator; the Scoutmaster is the unit leader along with the SPL. My first thought is that there are issues with the Scoutmaster, and the other messages reinforce that thought. I agree with Hunt in that this does not count as camping.

 

National Parent Initiative- ever heard of this? Take a look at the very bottom of Adult Application 28-501E:

 

"The National Parent Initiative has been designed to increase youth and parent recruitment, retention, advancement, participation, dedication, and a passion for Scouting. Your involvement and commitment is essential to the success of your childs Scouting experience. We encourage the parents (guardians) for each child to:

 

1. Participate with them. 2. Go to and observe their meetings. 3. Be part of their units programboth weekly meetings and outings. 4. Support the program financially. 5. Coach them on their advancement and earning of recognition awards. 6. Help in at least one support role during the year."

 

http://www.scouting.org/forms/28-501.pdf

 

There is also a whole new website for parents:

http://www.scoutparents.org/

 

I have a room full of personal memorabilia from almost 40 years in Scouting. I have bits of historical memorabilia though the life of the BSA. One of my most prized pieces is a note from a Scout's mother thanking me for not letting her take her son home from a campout. I brought this young man through two years of Webelos and seven years of Boy Scouting. He had physical and learning problems, but he made Eagle Scout on his own merits. He had problems on that outing, and mom wanted to take him home. I convinced her to let him go- that I would keep an eye on him and make sure he was OK. She left with tears in her eyes, but she was so proud when she picked him up after the trip. This is why I am a Scouter- it doesn't get much better than this.

 

Ed P.

[MarkS 11]

Was Billy one of the four that crossed over? If so, rather than focusing on the Cammping MB, focus on something with more immediate impact. Work with the SPL, TG and the PL to make sure that all of the boys complete their Tederfoot requiremenst ASAP. If they can complete everything before the next campout, recognize them immediately. Billy, will realize hd didn't get recognized with his buddies because he did not sleep in a tent he helped pitch. Mom will realize she held him back and everything will correct itself the next time Billy participates in a campout. In other words, let the way your troop runs the program work things out--lead by example.

[scoutldr 732]

It also won't count for OA eligibility. I remind the scouts of that when they want to go home early (on family night) from summer camp. "I guess you'll get your long term camp somewhere else?" Most just shrug and say "I don't care...my Playstation misses me."

[Gonzo1 10]

Mark S,

Billy was NOT one of the four that crossed over, he is "experienced" and a first class.

 

I'm all for helping them Tenderfoot quick, but they gotta earn it.

 

Scoutldr,

About 6 months ago when I first got involved w/ this troop, I noticed no flaps anywhere. When I asked a committee member about it, he said "we don't need any of that here, we're doing just fine". It's abou t the "good ole boy system".

 

If these guys don't come up with the idea, it can't be any good. One parent actually said to me in a 'public' email that I'm not in the good ole boy network s o I may as well not be involved. Funny thing, I haven't seen that guy anywhere.