Passing the test or lighting the fire ?

[Eamonn 61]

I'm a little unsure if because I'm growing old I now see things differently?

Talking with some of the 16 and 17 year old Sea Scouts, both male and female, I said how much I didn't like tests.

The conversation started when they found out that at one time I had worked as a teacher but didn't last very long.

I said how much I loved English history and liked kids, but my failure was that I thought everyone loved English history as much as I did and sadly that wasn't so.

The Scouts said that they felt like they were being rushed through everything, then tested and moved on to the next topic and next test.

They didn't feel like they were learning very much. However their parents judged them by their report cards which were the results of the tests they had taken.

When OJ was a little fellow in grade school, every Friday they had a spelling test. He never was very good at spelling, but worked hard at memorizing the words (Given earlier in the week) and most of the time he did OK, but by Monday he wasn't able to spell at least half the words from Fridays test and by Tuesday was busy working on the words for the next test.

He does OK at School, due to the fact that he does well at tests.

I'm disappointed that his teachers have been so busy preparing him for tests that they have never had the time to pass on what at one time they must have had. -A love of the subject that they teach.

Looking back to my own school days the teachers and masters I had were very passionate about the subject they were charged with passing on.

When I read the postings about Scouts receiving belt loops and Eagle Scout rank, without really meeting the requirements, it makes me sad.

Sad because the people who are handing this stuff out and signing this stuff off lack the passion needed to really light the fire and give the Scout an opportunity that might spark a new interest.

Some years back I thought I was going to be hung drawn and quartered by our Council Camping Committee. My big sin?

I'd suggested that we not offer Basketry Merit Badge at Summer Camp!!

I'm fine with the fact that the camp makes money selling the kits, but I have not ever in all the time I've been in Scouting met a Scout who shows any excitement about making a basket.

We offer it because it's easy and will fit in well with the First Year Camper Plan.

Sure the Lad will be recognized at the Troop COH, when he goes up to collect his patch. But what a waste of time.

More and more it seems that we the adults are more concerned about the Merit Badge count than what the Lad takes away from being involved with the Merit Badge.

Merit Badges really can go a long way in helping a Scout find something that he really can be interested in.

When we allow ourselves to sign off on a requirement that really hasn't been met, we are doing a great disservice to the Scout, we are cheating him out of the opportunity to get it right and maybe, just maybe find out that he could be good at it!! Sure some Scouts can fly through requirements, while others really struggle, but the struggle is a challenge, which once mastered becomes an achievement.

A Scout can take pride in achieving something, this is personal development.

One of the Sea Scouts failed to pass the BSA Swim test which I gave in the spring. He had all sorts of reasons why!! Mostly to do with when he was young he'd had tubes in his ears. He did manage to meet the swimming requirements, but wasn't able to float. I wasn't able in good conscience to sign off on it. I told him that he'd have to work on it and sadly if he didn't manage to meet the requirement that he wouldn't be able to go to summer camp with us.

Along with another Sea Scout who works as a Lifeguard at our local community pool they went swimming at least once a week.

At the start of the Summer he went to work as a staffer at our Council Summer Camp.

He phoned me one night, so very happy and informed me that he'd made Red White and Blue at Summer camp and is going to try and do the mile swim before the end of camp.

Sure he passed the test, but he also lit the fire.

Eamonn.

[evmori 11]

Some years back I thought I was going to be hung drawn and quartered by our Council Camping Committee. My big sin?

I'd suggested that we not offer Basketry Merit Badge at Summer Camp!!

I'm fine with the fact that the camp makes money selling the kits, but I have not ever in all the time I've been in Scouting met a Scout who shows any excitement about making a basket.

We offer it because it's easy and will fit in well with the First Year Camper Plan.

Sure the Lad will be recognized at the Troop COH, when he goes up to collect his patch. But what a waste of time.

 

I see this differently. 1st, drawing & quartering someone is definitely hazing!

 

I don't consider making a basket waste of time. I consider it a great teaching & learning experience. A young Scout learns how to follow directions & weave a basket! And it makes no difference if it's the nastiest looking basket known to mankind. He did it himself! And now when he goes to camp next year he can help a new Scout make his basket. Plus, he has learned the importance of following directions. Everyone wins!

 

The big problem I see with our school system is most teachers teach to tests. We measure how well our kids are doing by the grades they get on these tests. So a kid that does well on tests gets good grades. That doesn't mean he/she is smarter than the kid who does poorly on tests. All it means is they test better!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[Lisabob 13]

I teach for a living. I have many friends who teach middle and high school. And of course I write my own exams for my college classes. I guess you could say in that regard, that I "teach to the test" because I write the test. I've known many teachers at all levels who "lit the fire" for their students - or at least, tried. I've also known a few who I swear were the template for that old history teacher in "Ferris Bueller's Day Off!" Among those who really still have that passion, I've also heard many bitter complaints about being forced to leave out interesting material more and more because they have to spend so much time prepping for more and more tests - which the public then uses against them in both directions (too much time prepping for tests and you get nasty comments about "teaching to the test" - too little, and you get nasty comments and quite possibly a loss of state and federal funding, because your test scores didn't improve over last year's - or individual parents start calling you up and yelling because you expected Johnny to actually read the material ON HIS OWN *gasp* instead of spoon feeding it to him) So I do feel for them and at the college level I am happily immune from at least some of this.

 

Here's my take on it though. If the test is well written and covers material in a thorough, logical, way, then there's nothing necessarily wrong with "teaching to the test." The students (hopefully) learn the material they need to learn - not to pass the test but because it is what they're supposed to learn - and the test reflects that. The problem is when the test doesn't cover logical subjects and instead veers off into irrelevant minutia, or is poorly written so that testing becomes more about guessing the intent of the test writer and getting hung up in other "test taking games" than about actual knowledge. Testing, done right, also requires students to learn to critically analyze information, synthesize information from a variety of sources, weigh competing claims and evidence, structure/organize their thoughts, write a coherent essay, etc. - much of this done ahead of time, if they've studied effectively. These are all important skills that go beyond subject matter and test taking, itself. But the test is a catalyst for developing these skills and without it, many students would not bother to do the hard work necessary to gain these skills (let alone, the factual information that the test covers).

 

The parallel I see - done right, earning a bunch of MBs at camp (even basketry) is a byproduct of doing the things we all want scouts to do: explore new topics, develop at least a minimal skill level in those areas, maybe develop a deeper interest in an already-familiar subject. And of course, we hope they learn the less tangible things along the way such as how to work with others, following instructions, maybe even overcoming physical challenges and developing leadership skills and personal character along the way.

 

Done wrong, well we all know it's just a piece of cloth.

 

Eamonn I don't think the answer is necessarily "get rid of basketry" at camp (or insert whatever other "easy" mb you want here). I think the answer is, make darn sure that your MB counselors REALLY love their subject. Don't get some kid who couldn't care less, has no idea how to teach, and barely knows the material him/herself to teach mbs. And set high enough standards that the kids who leave camp w/ a fist full of MBs are proud that they earned them, and those with partials are fired up about finishing theirs.

 

Lisa'bob

 

 

[Lisabob 13]

By the way Ed, you're right that there are people who legitimately don't test well for a variety of reasons. They may really know the material forward and backward but it doesn't come out on the test. I have a lot of sympathy for folks in this position.

 

On the other hand, the vast majority of people who tell me they "don't test well" actually have an array of problems other than test taking. Due to the nature of some of the classes I teach, I see a lot of students who aren't doing too well in college and most of them tell me they're just not good test takers. Upon further discussion here are the major things I find out:

 

1. They don't do the assigned reading - expecting that all of the material would be spoon fed to them in class, making the readings redundant.

 

2. They tried to do the reading but they have such weak basic reading skills that they didn't comprehend much of it (and I'm talking about basic texts, not rocket science). Not surprising that they do poorly on tests designed to test comprehension of that material then!

 

3. They confuse having done the readings - once - with actually studying the material.

 

4. They don't take good notes, or any notes, and/or don't know how to take effective notes.

 

5. They miss as many classes as they attend and assume that "everything's in the book" so why come to class?

 

6. They don't know how to study.

 

7. They know how to study but didn't, or didn't spend much time doing so. Students regularly tell me they spend under an hour studying for a major exam.

 

8. They assume that a passive knowledge (oh yeah, I remember hearing about that and if someone explained it, I'd know if they had it right or not) is as good as an active knowledge (oh yeah, I've heard this before and I can explain it on my own and link it to other concepts too) - especially problematic for essays! This one reminds me of knot tying in scouting - there's a huge difference between having seen someone tie a knot and being able to use that same knot yourself for a functional purpose!

 

9. They get really nervous on test day as a result of all of the above. When the test lands on their desk they suddenly realize that they aren't well prepared, and what material they did know, gets all mixed up in that anxiety.

 

These things can be dealt with and if students learn the preparatory skills and use them, most find that they're not "bad test takers" after all! By and large this business of being a bad test taker is a myth that allows people to bypass their own responsibility in the educational process.

 

Lisa'bob

[Eamonn 61]

I'm sorry Ed, when I read page one of the Boy Scout Handbook making baskets just doesn't seem to meet with what we promise our Scouts.

Lisabob

I really don't have any axe to grind with teachers!! In fact having spent a couple of years in a very large (5,000) inner city school in the London area trying to teach and failing, I have great respect for those who stick with it.

A lot of the problem as I see it, is that it seems we are in such a rush to get to where we are going that there just isn't time to go back.

I watched as OJ worked his way through history. Sadly a lot of what he was working just didn't remain with him.

He may have done well on the test, but there just wasn't time to dwell on the subject. Or go over the soft spots.

Here in PA there has been a lot of talk about Outcome based education. A lot of the school districts seem very unhappy with the idea, I think they see it as undermining local control?

My problem with OBE and Mastery Learning is that it can work, however it assumes that that all students can master tasks and materials if given enough time and there just isn't the time!!

It also seems to place an unfair onus on students meeting goals which is judged by how well they do in tests!!

Education should be more than just doing well at exams.

We should be trying to develop a passion for learning and seeking to develop the whole person, mind,body, heart and soul, for the benefit of ones personal and professional

life.

I like to think that maybe? We have the opportunity to do this or work toward doing this in Scouting.

Of course unlike School our Scouts can and will walk away if what we offer isn't fun!

Which brings me back to them darn baskets !!

Never ever have I heard a Scout yell yippee to day is basket day! (Sorry Ed!!)

Eamonn.

 

[eagle90 125]

Last summer one of our first year scouts took Basketry Merit Badge. In my 30+ years of going to Summer Camps, I have never seen a scout work harder or with more determination than that Scout. Admittedly, he wasn't very good at the skill, and it took a lot of time, but at the end of the week when he turned in his stool he made and passed the merit badge, I have never seen a prouder scout. He was beaming! Here is a boy who learned a new skill, met adversity, persevered, and succeeded. To me that is a very important lesson taught and learned. He may remember that stool later in life when he has a formidable task ahead of him in his life or career. Isn't that what we are trying to accomplish?

 

Dale

[acco40 95]

I don't get much satisfaction from working with my hands (keep you thoughts clean!). I don't have an artistic bone in my body. I like cerebral tasks. My vocation is engineering but I tend to work the theoretical side.

 

My wife is the opposite. Her vocation (pre kids) was dental hygienist.

 

Now my two boys both took the Indian Lore merit badge at summer camp at relatively the same age (second year of summer camp). My oldest son (who takes after mom) loved it. He spent hours working on the minutia of his little scale Indian Village made out of twigs, grass, dirt, etc. My youngest son (middle child) put in a half hearted effort and the counselor said his work was not good enough. He re-did his work from scratch and again got the same reply. He got frustrated and ended up getting a partial with a vow to never complete that merit badge.

 

So this year, a second year Scout asked me if Indian Lore would be a good MB to take at summer camp. I gave him a the facts as I knew them, one of my sons loved it, one loathed it. Did he like to make things? Pay attention to detail? Work with his hands? He ended up taking it and loved it!

 

I love problem solving. I don't like tests. I never had that good of a memory so when it came to regurgitate facts, I didn't excel as well as when I was asked to problem solve. Some teachers use tests as a simple measuring stick. I enjoyed teachers who used tests as a teaching tool in and of itself.

 

For example, a physics question I enjoyed was the following: (assume no evaporation or precipitation) You are in a lake, in a boat, and throw a brick overboard. Does the relative lake depth increase, decrease or stay the same? Please feel free to give it a shot with no explanation to give away the answer. I'll give the answer tomorrow. These types of questions don't ask the student to regurgitate equations or facts but they do ask him to problem solve using the concepts that were taught. I always did better in that arena.

[Eamonn 61]

Dale,

You are of course right.

But...

Why do we have to bring a Lad to summer camp for him to sit down and weave a basket?

While I'm sure there a good many people who love making baskets -Even though as yet I have to meet one! I wonder if we had an easy knitting MB, if we would be pushing first year campers into knitting baby booties?

As you might have guessed I'm not a big fan of basketry. -I'm not a lover of jigsaw puzzles either!!

Eamonn

[evmori 11]

How doesn't it fit Eamonn?

[SWScouter 34]

When I look back on my summer camp experience, I have few memories. I remember doing stuff at the beach. I know I enjoyed canoeing, rowing and swimming, but I really don't have many vivid memories there. Most images are fleeting. I do however, remember making a basket for the basketry merit badge. I had the basket for years but somewhere lost track of it. I can still remember what the basket looked like. I must have really enjoyed making that basket! I never made another, but I am glad that I had that opportunity.

 

Acco40, assuming evaporation and precipitatiion also covers streams running into the lake and water going over the spillway, i.e., no water entering or leaving the lake, I figure that the depth of the lake may increase, decrease, or stay the same. It all just depends on the xxxx and the yyyyy.

 

Personally, to cater to the sportsmen and not be a litter bug, I would reword the question as follows: You are in a lake, in a boat, and land a 12" trout. Does the relative lake depth increase, decrease or stay the same?

 

SWScouter

[Eamonn 61]

acco40

It remains the same.

Eamonn.

[CalicoPenn 729]

I just pulled out my old merit badge sash. Of the 27 badges on my sash, I remember earning just two of them (I earned Dog Care???? - I had a dog growing up - I just don't remember earning the badge but I must have met the requirements - and just what is that badge with a bridge on it anyway? Oh yeah - Engineering).

 

The ones I remember are Landscape Architecture - I spent hours at the dining room table designing and redesigning and redesigning landscapes - turns out I was also one of the few people in my council at the time to even try to earn that badge.

 

The other is...Basketry. The first merit badge I earned at camp. In my troop, earning Basketry was a tradition and everyone earned that badge the first summer at camp. I later learned the reason behind this - my summer camp had an enforced one-hour siesta after lunch when everything shut down - including the trading post - and campers were expected to stay in their cmpsites if the troop was in camp that day (and not out horseback riding or rafting a river) - Boys can only write so many letters back home, and no one wanted to take a snooze - so, the younger lads made their baskets and camp stools, and the older lads were to assist the younger ones in doing so correctly, if they weren't working on a project for their own merit badges. A lot of the older lads would buy their own kits and make a basket. The adults, it turned out, were rather sly about keeping a camp full of boys quiet and occupied during siesta.

 

Our merit badge counselor for basketry was the Camp Commissioner - added that adult relations to the badge as most of the time when the lad came back to the Commissioner's site to show off their completed badge and stool, adult leaders from other units were around sharing their stories and admiring the lads work. If you were lucky, you got to the site just as the Commissioner was doling out some cobbler from a dutch oven. Like SWScouter, I've lost track of my basket, though I remember using it through college as a pen holder, and I can remember the shape of it. I also remember the many varied baskets at the Commissioner's site that had been created over the years which were meant to showcase what could be done.

 

True, basketry merit badge at camp is pretty much the only reason that councils can actually sell basket and stool making kits. When I was on camp staff for my own council's camp (our troop always camped out of council) I was the trading post manager - and basketry merit badge counselor - nothing like making the commerce connection obvious.

 

However, for me, the best parts of that summer were the times I worked with scouts in the morning when the TP was closed on their baskets - yes, many scouts would work on them at the counselor site - even sometimes in the afternoons out under the overhang of the trading post where I could wander outside and help them out. I don't remember a single boy complaining that he was being forced to take the merit badge - heck, I had at least 4 Life Scouts taking the badge because they needed to earn something "easy" towards their Eagle count. Sometimes the older scouts get more enthused than the younger ones - our camp sold not just the kits but basket making supplies so you could make one of your own creation. Knowing I would be the counselor that year, I learned more traditional ways of creating reed baskets (translation - baskets without round wood bottoms). The younger scouts would always buy the kit - the older scouts would watch me demonstrate the traditional way and trade in the kit they bought for loose supplies (I always took in the trade - wasn't "supposed" to but the camp director overlooked that - after all, it was a "trading" post - and the lads were working on a merit badge)and would create a traditional style basket. One lad was working on his traditional basket back at camp and some of the older scouts who had already earned the badge came to me and asked if I would teach them how to make a basket even though they already had the badge (of course I said yes). I even had a Scoutmaster come the second day of camp to learn the traditional method - now that was cool.

 

What I do know is that it's the counselors enthusiasm for the badge, and the manner in which its taught, that makes the difference - my counselor worked on his own baskets while we worked on ours - I did the same - working on a new basket and stool every week, just like the campers. Part of the thing that made it fun though was I started creating a large basketry shield and let every scout working on the badge add their own loops - plenty of missed spokes and double windings but by the end of the summer, the shield was 4-foot across and hung on the trading post wall for 2 years (I hear there was a great deal of cheering when it was finally sacrificed to the fire gods - which was my intention - I just wish I could have been there to see it).

 

I heard plenty of horror stories about bad counselors for the badge - dropping baskets to see if the hold up, standing on stools for the same reason, scrutinizing the basket and/or stool for any flaw and making the lad take it apart and do it again. I saw nothing then (and nothing now) in the requirements that say weave a PERFECT basket. I had one ASM complain to the camp director that I had passed a lad when the basket had a double winding on it (the only flaw in the basket). Granted, too many flaws might lead to a partial, but not one or two. When called into the director's office to explain myself, I pointed out that the book doesn't require perfection and that in the southwest, tradition holds that a flaw be introduced into the basket so as not to offend the gods - even the ASM admitted that maybe he was being too demanding and was glad the camp had a basketry counselor that actually seemed to care about and took the time to know something about the art.

 

Moral of the long story - don't blame the badge - blame the counselor if he's bad, and the camp for looking at it strictly as a moneymaker and and afterthought.

 

CalicoPenn

 

 

[Fuzzy Bear 12]

I was a shop teacher for children with special problems for five years. I enjoyed my work and loved the students. I wrote my own tests. We prepared by reading the material and answering related questions. We then moved to the shop where we had hands-on experiences/projects over the same material. We would review the same the next day and discuss it. We would talk about how the material could be used in our everyday lives. Every three weeks, we would review what we had learned the first few weeks and take a test over it. Students knew what to expect from my tests. There would always be basic math, reading, writing problems. My tests were straight forward. The students were mostly prepared and knew what to expect.

 

They had three levels of projects. The first level was to acquaint them with every tool in the shop in a safe, sequential and graduated manner. The second level included a personal project to be completed at school with my guidance and then they would plan and complete a home project under the supervision of their parents. The third level was to plan and complete a project for one of the teachers or other personnel at the school. This project was handled as if they had sub-contracted the job themselves. The basic project was reviewed by myself and the contracting teacher. The student had as much autonomy as possible at this stage so they could claim it as their own. We also read, discussed and tested on several chapters about the world of work, as well as brought in employers. Some of these employers donated equipment and supplies. Students did not pay for anything.

 

We used repetition and various modes of input to achieve our goals. By the end of my time there, our students could not enter a room or any place on campus where their work was not represented. When we had open house, students would always point to several projects that they or one of their friends had done. Many of my students went directly into jobs in the community. My follow-up method was simple. Former students would stop me in the street or come up to me in a restaurant and shake my hand. Most of these students would never enter a college but they had performance abilities that far surpassed what I could do. Their gifts were generally underestimated and dismissed as being nonessential. So, this program was disbanded because it did not meet the new academic standards that we now have. FB

 

In fluid mechanics, displacement occurs when an object is immersed in a fluid, pushing it out of the way and taking its place. An object which sinks completely displaces an amount equal to its volume; Archimedes' Principle states that when this happens, the weight of the object is reduced by its volume times the density of the fluid. If it is less it floats.

 

Any MB should be taught by someone that enjoys teaching and by one who enjoys the subject and by one who likes the students.

 

 

 

 

 

[FScouter 24]

It depends on the brick. If the brick sinks, the lake level will drop. The faster the brick sinks, the more the lake level will drop.

[acco40 95]

I don't think anybody really gave the correct answer.

 

And the answer is ......

 

The level of the lake would drop. By stating that it is a brick, I made the assumption that most would assume that the brick would not float. A brick (or anything that sinks) displaces a volume of water equal to its weight in the boat and displaces a volume of water equal to its volume in the water. Therefore, it displaces more water in the boat (making the relative lake depth increase) than when trhrown overboard. The rate of sinking has nothing to do with it. FScouter got the answer but I don't quite follow his last statement about rate. Fuzzy Bear got 90% correct but did quite give an answer.