What would you do?

[blazer63 10]

I will try to keep this as brief as possible. The Troop which I am Scoutmaster of went on a camping trip this weekend to an area with several historic sites. We stayed at a private campground. The campground was still closed for the season(it opens next week) and we were the only folks there. The owners went out of their way to not only get the bathrooms open and water running but also clean up their miniature golf course AND kept an employee working to keep the game room open for us.

The troop spent the day touring some of the local sites and we had an outstanding day. Once we were done with the days activities the boys and other leaders(4 adults-14 boys) headed back to camp while 3 boys, myself and another adult ran to the local Walmart for some supplies.

Upon returning to the campground (was gone less than an hour) I pulled up to the front office to find 2 of my assistant scoutmasters and the 2 parents that came with us this weekend waiting for me. They then informed me that while 10 of the boys were playing in the rec room 1 or more of them broke open a vending machine and some items were missing from it. The machine had those plastic bubbles with the rubber bracelets that are so popular these days. Apparently, somehow the machine was opened and several of the bracelets were missing. As I was getting all the facts from my Assistant Scoutmasters, the owners of the Campground showed up very irate (justiiably so). They told us that they had been "burned by Scout groups in the past" and wanted us to leave. We spoke with them for quite some time and they agreed to let me have 15 minutes to try and discern what happened and who had broken the machine.

I went to the campsite and had a frank discussion with the boys regarding the 1st point of the Scout Law and how good people may make bad decisions but when you do make a bad decision you need to step up and make things right. I asked the boys to take a couple of minutes and think things over and the boy(or boys) who had broken the machine had 5 minutes to come to me and let me know what happened. I really expected the boys to have the intestinal fortitude to step up and take responsibility in this matter. Unfortunately, I was totally disappointed as no one came forward. There were a lot of accusations flying and the story was changing by the moment when the Campground owners came back to find out what happened. Since I could not tell them that a boy (or boys) had come forward to take responsibility they told us we had to leave. I had the boys pack their gear and drove the 1-1/2 hours home. Once we got back home the boys called their parents. I had the parents stay until they had all arrived and then we had the boys sit down and I explained to the parents what had taken place. I also gave the boys another opportunity to step up and take responsibility(although at this point I did not expect any boy to come forward in the face of all those upset people). I also told the boys to take the time between now and our troop meeting monday nite to search their souls and if any of them wanted to discuss this issue with me or any other leader of the troop (including our SPL who may be more "approachable" on this issue at this point) that they should contact us.

I guess my question now (besides wondering where and how we have failed these boys) is what should the leadership of the troop do now. Do we punish all the boys because 1 or 2 did something wrong? I have a hard time believing that out of the 10 boys that were in this room at the time no one saw anything at all. I am at a total loss as to the next step. Our Troop Committee chairman was at the Church when I arrived back with the boys. He was extremely upset and his feeling is that there should be no further Troop activities until this situation is resolved. I do not want to over react to this situation but I also don't want to underreact either. I desperately want to do what is right but just don't know what that is right now. I do not want any hasty decisions to be made, and I know that this is certainly a prime learning moment, but between the intense disappointment I feel that no one stepped up and took responsibility for their actions, as well as feeling guilty that I was not present at the time this occured and to be honest a good dose of embarassment at being kicked out of the campground I fear my judgement is clouded. I appologize for the length of this post but I would certainly welcome any ideas or comments that anyone may have to offer.

 

[Greg Nelson 10]

Wow, that's a tough situation.

 

First off, you did the right thing by packing up and leaving. A lot of leaders would have offered to "make it right" with the campground owners on their own.

 

It's not surprising that the boy or boys who stole the stuff didn't want to come forward. The same character flaw that made them think it's OK to take stuff from other people makes them think it's OK for others to suffer for what they did.

 

I'd be more concerned with the boys who knew what happened and said nothing, both while it was going on and afterwards. They probably don't want to "snitch" on their friends. I think it's great that they had to suffer the consequences for THAT action. You're not punishing innocent scouts at all (except for the ones at Wal-Mart with you). Every scout that was in that room is guilty.

 

I don't have any good advice for where you go from here, but so far, you've handled everything in an exceptional manner.

[Bob White 20]

Hi Blazer,

Wow! Tough outing my friend. First ditch the feeling that you let the boys down somehow, or that they all let you down. Unless they all ripped off the machine, which I doubt, only the unkown boy or boys who did the deed let anyone down. In fact they let everyone down.

 

How you could have best handled it at that momont is tough to say, tempers ar high, accusations are flying. The best thing to do was apologize and leave. What to do now is to focus on what's next.

 

My suggestions are.

Make sure the the buddy system is maintained at all times in the future for everything, scouts must always have a buddy and they must tell the PL where the are going if they are going to be out of a clear line of sight. PLs must tell the SPL if they are going anywhere.

 

Call the local police or sheriff's dept. We would take the new scouts each year for a "tour" of the jail and discuss shoplifting and other common juvenile crimes. Then we wlked them down the long hall stood the in a cell, slammed the door and walked away for a few minutes.

 

It always made a HUGE impression.

 

Next the SPL as the troop representative personally and sincerely apologizes to the CO for what happened.

 

Finally I would call the camp, find out the value of the damage that was done, ask for a really lousy job for the boys to do, drive back out do the job, pay the restitution, and have each scout personally shake hands with the owners and apologize for anything his behavior did to harm the camp.

 

No talking going up, or while the job is being done, they need time to think about what they did as a group and each person's responsubility to represent the unit, the CO, and the program.

 

(any scout on that first campout who doesn't go back with you has to get up there with his parents and offer his apology.)

 

Once the apologies are done, and you are back in the car, put the incident behind you for good.

 

That would be my suggestion

 

BW

 

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[evmori 11]

WOW. Tough trip. You in no way let these Scout down. And as far as guilt goes, the 10 in the rec room are the guilty ones. Now I don't mean each & every one broke into the machine. But they were all present. And by none of them fessing up to anything, they are all guilty.

 

I would continue outings with the four Scouts not present during this incident. I would not let the others go until the incident is resolved.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[DugNevius 10]

I must agree you did the right thing.

 

for us in similar circumstances the reprimand was spread evenly throughout the scouts involved. When an unnamed scout vandleized a tent all the scouts inside the tent had to share the cost of replacment. If 10 boys were in the same room, 10 share responsability, because as scouts and (im assuming) scouts in leadership positions it is their duty to lead and act as scouts and part of that includes a level of governing each other, being trustworth and obedient, and showing respect. If the one or two scouts dont step forward the unit takes the heat. That could be paying to cost to replace damage and/or a service project.

 

One way to avoid this in the future would be to have 1 or more of the 4 adults back in camp be around 10 of the 14 scouts in camp.(This message has been edited by DugNevius)

[Fuzzy Bear 12]

I have been a teacher in a program where I had young people that were Scout age but all of them had some kind of problem(s), any combination of intellectual, behavioral or emotional. We had several problems over the years. I was generally able to find the culprit to most of the "crimes" committed. They always waited until I was out but they always had witnesses. These students were not Scouts but most had a sense of justice, fairness, and truth.

 

Once I understood what had occurred, I would take several suspects into the hall one at a time and question them. They were told not to talk when they reentered the classroom. They always talked when they returned and before they left the hallway. I would finish with the investigation and most of the time, I would have it narrowed down to the perpetrator and the witnesses.

 

These students always talked even though they were sworn to silence. They talked because I shared leadership of the program with them, much like Scouting. They talked because these "bad" kids have a sense of rightness.

 

Once I knew who, then we started restitution and/or the punishment phase.

 

As Scoutmaster, I made several mistakes in dealing with similar problems. One important thing is to narrow it down to the suspects as quick as possible. The more time that elapses after the event, the more time that people have in coming up with different stories to separate themselves from the event. You can still figure it out because most give clues and contradictions in their stories, which is your job to listen carefully and use accordingly.

 

If you can figure out who, then tell him that he will need to speak with his parents and to the CC later. Try not to put yourself in the position of being the one who does the punishment.

 

Find out the total cost for fixing the machine and for replacing the contents and any money that may have been taken. Restitution will need to be completed and any punishment that the CC deals out before moving on. The Scout will need his parents along during this phase.

 

This was not a mistake and don't call it one. It may be a symptom of other things. It may be a learning experience but it certainly merits swift action. The other Scouts will understand when they see the machinery in place and it will reduce the occurrence of similar things in the future. Young people talk and remember.

 

 

FB

[kenk 11]

You certainly reacted the way I could only hope I would have. Please don't feel that you did anything wrong.

 

I'm just not sure that this should turn into some kind of inquisition. It seems that the troop needs to make amends to the campground. Maybe have the troop's leadership get together with the campground owners and identify several service projects that need to be done and that could be done by the boys.

 

Then spend the next few months working on these projects (I like the silence idea, but it could be tough to comply with for boys). To make sure the boys show up for these projects, make it clear that participation in the service projects is mandatory for participation in the month's outings.

 

My ultimate goal is to show the campground owner that Scouts will do the right thing ... and let peer pressure from those Scouts who know who did the damage dole its own kind of punishment.

[nutz4scouting 10]

The lawyer side of me says: You have a possibility of ten felons.

Make restitution FAST.

If this camp has been burned in the past by other scouts,its your troop they might want to prosecute.(1-2 for the commission of the crime,the rest as accessories)While commendable that they don't want to snitch each other off,there might be a deeper rooted problem.

(I.E. threats or bullies)

It is not a small problem you have there,but maybe you can change a troubled boys future,by how you react.

I've never heard of a troop going home early,someone usually gave up the culprit whern that threat was made.

[blazer63 10]

Thank you all for the words of wisdom and encouragement. I did not mention that while i was speaking with the owners i did ask if it were possible to have the boys do a service project as a way to start to compensate them for this issue

The owners refused saying that they could be liable if one of the boys were hurt. I tried to explain to them that BSA has insurance to cover this and also that I thought this would be an excellent way to get the boys to begin taking responsibility for what had occured. Unfortunately, they were so upset and disgusted by what had happened that they just wanted us to leave. I am not sure if with the passage of a little time they will feel differently. I was thinking about speaking with our District Executive, who is very close to the troop and asking if he could talk with the owners and explain that their liability is extremely limited and that this could be an excellent way to teach these boys a lesson. Beyond that, I have 14 or 15 other kids in the troop who were not on this trip. I don't want to these boys to be punished and dragged through this whole ordeal but I certainly hope that they will see the consequences and learn the lesson that the other boys will hopefully learn. Any other ideas that you folks have would of course be greatly appreciated. Thanks again for your input!!

[Eagledad 2777]

Hi All

 

There are some really good replies. Your scouts must make amends if they are get anything out of scouting. We had a situation like on an AF Base. I knew what had to happen and I had two concerns. One that the youth leaders set the plans to make amends. The other was that all the scouts see the moral wrong of the situation.

 

I agree with others that you can't leave the park the way it is. The scouts must understand that. But it's the scouts who need to make contact, find out the damage and figure out how to pay for it. It's unfair that these owners view all scouts as bad from the performance of a very few. It's time they see what scouting is all about. The base also didn't want to have anything to do with us, but eventally got them to understand they we could let it stand as it was. We ended doing several service projects. Your scouts will step to the plate.

 

You need to pretty much show your disapointment, explain the larger ramifications of a few. Then let them talk it out and figure a plan. They will not disapoint you.

 

Our PLC also took three scout meetings and did a program on proper behavoir. There is alot of material out there. It turned into a troop project.

 

As for the scouts who caused the problem. They need to understand that such actions can't go without retrubution. Ask them, what are they going to do. Either they can fix this now, or it can hang or their head as long as they are in the troop. One action on the troop is they can never be trusted to be alone again. Everytime they go into a store, shop or anyplace where they can cause harm, there will be someone asigned to watch them. We did this to a scout who cause damage at our church during a meeting and he has not been trouble since.

 

More than anything else, I've learned that scouts in a boy run program hate to loose the trust of others. Nothing like an adult or older scout following your around while everyone else is free to come and go.

 

What you are trying to do is give the scout notice that you expect them to deal with this kind of behavoir. ITS NOT YOUR PROBLEM, it's theres. And you expect them to take the responsibility seriously. Than is just who you are, and either they except that, or move on. What you want to happen is the other scouts stopping the one scout before it gets to this point.

 

Barry

[Eamonn 61]

Hi blazer63

My heart goes out to you and the innocent Scouts and Leaders,what a nasty way to ruin a good weekend.

I agree with everyone that has posted that you and the other leaders are not at fault.

I think you need to meet with the Troop Committee and see how they want to handle the situation. I would hope that they would move to ensure that the camp ground owners are compensated for whatever loss they have incurred.

I am not in favor of what your Troop Committee Chair is saying, but at the end of the day this ball is with him and the Troop Committee.

Eamonn.