SM refusing to sign-off on completed SM Conf - situation worse

[goodkidsmom 10]

This is related to the discussion a few back about the SM trying to change my son's personality, by requiring my son to be more "assertive" before he would sign off that the SM Conference took place. I'm hoping to get some more feedback from a new thread rather than adding to that long one.

 

The situation has just gotten far far worse. For those new, the summary:

 

My son has held his SM Conference for Life, and the SM refused to sign off b/c he says my son needs to be more assertive and participate more. The boy was already signed off on Scout Spirit (by the SM) and Participation (by an ASM). This was his second SM Conference - first he did it with an ASM, and then the CC said he had to do it with the SM so he did. Since he "took part" in the SM Conf, he has completed the requirement, but the SM has thrown up a roadblock to his BOR and also has tried to add a requirement.

 

Re Scout Spirit: He is very well behaved, honest, courteous, helpful, etc. They have never had a behavior problem with him. He has a quiet personality and does not speak up for himself. He is also under treatment for clinical depression. Neither of these is related to Scout Spirit.

 

Re Participation: He does not like rougn'n'tumble games that are often played in meetings and avoids participating in them. However, in the past year he has attended 9 weekend campouts, participated in 2 Eagle Scout projects, participated in all of the troops approximately 7-8 service projects, and volunteered for a number of things at school. He completed 8-9 MBs and held 2 troop positions in the past year. SM holds against him that he missed two recent campouts: for one, he had been ill and on the way to the campout he was seriously depressed and broke down crying, so we said he couldn't go. SM told him he was irresponsible in not fulfulling his commitment to go (even after KNOWING of the clinical depression). For the other, he fractured his big toe a few days before and the Dr. said he couldn't go.

 

I talked to two people at the Council / District, who offered to talk to the SM and CC but I said we wanted to try to handle it ourselves. My husband, who is on the ALC, talked to SM, but didn't get anywhere. CC, who is also DAC, is out of town.

 

Here's where we are now:

Today my son got up the nerve to be assertive and call SM and to tell SM that the handbook says the requirements say "take part in" and that he did, and that the handbook does not list "assertiveness" as a requirement, and that the requirements can't be added to.

 

SM said that he's been doing this for 20 years and he wasn't going to be told how to do things by a kid. He also said he was requiring more assertiveness and holding him back from the BOR for my son's own good. He said he would discuss it with him further at summer camp (starting this Sunday).

 

After that, my son broke down crying for the rest of the evening. My husband talked to SM several times, saying that he was out of line, that my son has completed the requirements, that he is very depressed, that the SM shouldn't be messing with his head, and that now it was unlikely they'd be going to summer camp. SM won't budge, saying that CC (who is also DAC) told him not to pass on kids to the BOR when he sees a problem.

 

My husband and son were looking forward to going to summer camp Sunday (my husband goes on lots of troop outings), but now I doubt that they'll go. Being with this man for a week will be awkward at best, and would be very miserable for my son never knowing when/if SM will try to corner him to give him a lecture. It also turns out that SM has engineered my son and troop bully working together on something at camp - troop bully got in major trouble last year with the school and police for making implied gun threats against my son, and there's no way this man should try to throw them together.

 

My son and husband will likely change troops; this SM may mean well, but he's overstepped his bounds in terms of the requirements and also in the way he's dealt with my son. I just hope that my son doesn't drop out entirely after this horrible experience.

 

What do you all think? Is there any way to salvage this situation? What should we do?

 

GKMom

 

[Eamonn 61]

I have read your tale of woe in the other thread.

With all due respect I think that both you and the Lads father are being more then a little over protective of your son.

However in answer to your question as to what should you do?

I think maybe you all need to get as far away from the Troop that your son is in as possible.

While I agree that the Scoutmaster is out of line. You might want to consider something that some very wise person said to me:

The best thing we can give our kids are Roots and wings.

I don't remember if you posted the age of your son? But my gut feeling is that it is time that you and your husband backed off. Even with the medical condition that your son has. He does need to learn to stand on his own two feet.

No this is not a Scout Requirement, and yes some Lads are happier with their nose in a book. That is fine, but when a Scout makes the Scout Oath the first word is I. It isn't me and my Mom and Dad.

Eamonn

[Bob White 20]

Basically you have been told "I have been doing it wrong for 20 years and I am not going to change."

 

You can win this battle by requesting the Council for an appeal, but the war will continue until this SM leaves either by his choice or by request.

 

Your son can stay and learn a valuable lesson, that you can be miserable for a long time and still survive. Or he can learn a valuable rule of life, you don't have to hang around people who don't like you. Why should scouting make him feel bad? If you have other troops in your area they may be worth the investigation.

[goodkidsmom 10]

Eamonn - thanks for your post. I agree with you that about roots, wings, and "I". He does all of the "I" parts of the Oath and Law himself. The lack of assertiveness regards dealing with problems, but I think that tonight he gets an A++ in assertiveness. Standing up to an adult who is in the wrong is beyond a lot of people, including adults, and since my son did it by himself I'm very proud of him. Yes, I'm afraid we will have to change troops.

 

Bob White - I think we'll do a combination of both. We'll talk to the Council tomorrow - the people I spoke to Tuesday had already offered to talk to SM. I don't want to just jump ship and leave SM to continue playing by his own rules.

 

We'd like our son to finish the BOR in this troop before leaving. There are good troops in the area, including the one in which he was a Cub. (He and the other cubs in his grade went to the present troop years ago to escape Pack Bully, but Pack Bully followed them to the same Troop). He's pretty shy about joining new groups, so I hope he'll give that a shot rather than just quitting entirely.

 

It's just such a shame that this kind of (*&(* has to happen.

 

GKM

[evmori 11]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the requirement say participate in a SM Conference not PASS a SM Conference? Sounds like this Scout participated in a SM Conference & by the SM not signing off because he wants the Scout to be more assertive is adding to the requirements which isn't allowed!

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[scoutldr 726]

In my book, the first word is "On".

 

I agree...find another troop. And send a letter to the IH, copy to the SM and SE. State the facts as to why you are transferring your membership (i.e., SM refused to adhere to the advancement rules of the BSA). Do not be emotional or libelous, despite the fact that this guy appears to be either a nut case or an egomaniacal jerk. Maybe both.(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

[goodkidsmom 10]

Evmori - it says "take part in". And Yes, that's exactly what's happened. Plus, when the boy DID show the assertiveness of calling him, the SM further rejected him.

 

Scoutldr - You're right, it's "On". What do IH and SE stand for? Your advice about the letter - and what to leave out - is good.

 

Everyone - What now? Should he go to summer camp? Should he even try to complete the BOR with this group? Is running away from camp and from this troop a mistake? If he goes to another troop, does he have to start over with any of the requirements - e.g."Be active in YOUR troop..." - is that now the new troop? Technically he shouldn't have to repeat the SM Conference - the ASM who already did it signed off. However, it would make sense for the SM and adults in the new troop to get to know him for awhile - and a new SM conf with a new SM shouldn't be a traumatic experience (though I can see why he might not WANT to do it again). I guess it'd be a "getting to know you" talk.

 

 

[FScouter 24]

Its unfortunate you have an autocratic and rigid Scoutmaster to deal with. Its sad too that by his own statement he has been this way for 20 years. I would absolutely meet with your district executive and district commissioner and advise them that the SM and CC are not following the advancement policies of BSA, and that it appears that your boy will either drop out or move to another troop. This is the time for them to get involved and pull the SM back into line, or advise the chartered organization that they need to find a SM that adheres to the BSA program.

[scoutingagain 20]

Goodkidsmom,

 

Well I'm glad your son made the effort to call the SM. Good for him. It may be trivial to others but for him, I'm sure it took a lot of guts. Sorry the outcome wasn't better.

 

As far as summer camp goes, you might want to look into having your son attend with a provisional troop, or look into another scout camp or High Adventure activity on a provisional basis, even with Dad.

Sometimes there are last minute cancellations and I wouldn't be suprised if you could find room someplace.

 

I tend to agree with the others, seems like it's time to at least look at other troops in the area.

 

Goodluck to you and your son.

 

SA

 

[EagleInKY 14]

GKM - Lots of good advice here. I would definitely try to get the Life BOR from his current troop. Then, I would consider your options there are for moving to another troop. You certainly don't want to run up against this again for Eagle.

 

With that said, I would recommend the following:

- Get someone from the district involved to override the SM. DE and DC are good, given that the DAC is on your committee. Yes, it will be painful, but hopefully it will prevent him from making this mistake with another boy down the road. Chances are, he's done this before, and no one has called him on it.

- I would encourage your son (and husband) to go to Summer Camp. "Be the bigger man", as they say. Teach your son that taking a stand can really change the world. If Summer Camp with this troop is not an option, I recommend taking the provisional camper approach. But, I think that would be socially challenging for you son.

 

[boleta 10]

My son recently was denied a Gold Eagle Palm by the SM. Through the forum I learned that it says "participate" in a SM conference. I convinced the Troop Committee after 2 months of arguing to agree and my son sat for the BOR. He was still denied the palm when the BOR agreed with the SM. The appeal to council was successful and he got the palm dated Feb. 24, one day after the SM conference "denial".

If you stay in the troop and fight, and win... your son may learn more (as mine did), than if you decide to cut and run.

[ScoutNut 147]

GKM - IH stands for Institutional Head. This is the head of your Charter Organization. Not to be confused with the COR which is the Charter Organization Representative.

 

SE is your council's Scout Executive. He/she is the head of the council.

 

You might consider talking to your Council's Advancement Chair. If they could talk to your SM, and straighten him out on his advancement methods, it might just carry a bit more weight with your SM than a talk by the DE or DC.

 

I would try to talk your hubby and son into attending Summer camp. It would be a shame to miss it because of your SM's attitude. I would also have your hubby keep an eye on the "bully" and if anything happens report it to your SM, the Camp Director and also your Scout Excutive (SE). There are some Youth Protection issues here.

 

Good Luck and have your son start looking for a decent Troop to join.

 

 

[scoutldr 726]

Thanks for answering ScoutNut...I wasn't quick enough. See if you can attend camp as a "Provisional Camper"...and individual scout who attends without his home troop. Our troop has had one or two "Provisionals" the past couple of years and they were a joy. They really wanted to be there, so they were no trouble, and our boys got to meet someone new. The lesson was that all scouts are Brothers and you should be able to hook up with any troop and have fun. Just go a different week ... should be no problem.

[boleta 10]

Be careful going provisional with an angry scoutmaster back home. Be sure the scoutmaster has approved the Blue Cards and merit badges your son wants to take before he goes with another troop. Otherwise, he may come back and not get credit for them. This would violate several rules but wouldn't necessarily stop this SM anyway.

[CaveEagle 15]

GKMom,

 

Your situation is very disturbing. I think you have gotten some very great advice here. I pray that you are able to keep your son in scouting. It really sounds like this SM has some sort of personal problem with either your son or your husband. I have been aware of situations where an adult leader did not think a boy was "Eagle material" and would use just about any excuse to keep them from the "Life" rank. (some justified, some not) How is the SM dealing with other scouts, such as the "bully" you refered to. If the "bully" kid is advancing in rank, this should also be pointed out to your CC, DE, District Advancement Chair.

 

I suspect that the SM is not being straight with you. His issue with your boy is beyond the "assertiveness" complaint. Sometimes a personality conflict can not be overcome. Is it wise to continue working for a boss that just doesn't like you when there's another job offer on the table? Remember that you probably only have another couple of years for your son to benifit from scouting (as a scout). Don't waste any more time banging your son's head against this wall.

 

BTW: Don't forget to let your Chartered Org. Rep. know why you are leaving. If this guy has really been around for 20 years, this is probably not the first time he has forced a kid out of the troop.

 

All the Best....

 

CE