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OldGreyEagle

Todays Kids

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>>Telling is rarely leading and it rarely has lasting effects. Scouting teaches 4 styles of leadership. Many adults seem to only use one.

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Bob, I am not beating myself up over this. I had to act fast, am untrained in the BSA, and had an extremely difficult situation to deal with--and he was not the only boy that needed help and attention. Until you pointed out the better way, I thought I had done ok. I did not do what I'd like to do though, and I don't know how, even still.

 

This is one of many instances when training could have helped. And speaking of training, what exactly is a Wood Badge Counselor or Troop Guide? This is new term for me. Does it apply to Cubs?

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"My point: this boy needed to hear what was expected of him. I know he is used to getting his own way, but his own way was a poor reflection on the other Cubs, and it was offensive. "

 

"The reson that your directive to the scout only lasted five minutes was that for him to behave was a choice you made and not a choice he made."

 

Back in the good old days when parents could flog their kids, the child made the decision to behave because he knew that if he didn't he wouldn't be able to sit for a day.

 

We long ago learned to deal with bad behavior by letting the parents deal with it. We've called parents to come get their kids at summer camp which is a four hour drive away from home. Usually the threat of calling Dad is enough but a couple times, Dad had to come get the kid.

 

Back in Cub Scouts we had a kid who would do fun things like bend over and show his butt to people who came up to our table to buy popcorn. Dad and Mom weren't any help because they would try to "reason" with him, kinda like reasoning with Osama Bin Laden. Finally we took to sending him home from activities and his Dad quit as Cubmaster.

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>>Bottom line is that you are right, I should have done better, but I didn't know how and failed (though it seemed I did ok at the time) with this particular boy.

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Thank you Barry. That's a good idea. I will spend plenty of time with this boy because my son is in a den with him and he's a neighbor boy, though he got into some trouble on our street and has not returned. I would like to know why he is in Cubs, what he expects from/of Cubs, what he hopes to do. Since we most likely will not be in social settings together, and only Cubs, do you have ideas of other questions that I might use to help draw him out and get him to think? He is a tough kid (and he takes risks and puts others in risky situations), and most people avoid him, and I'd like to. However, if I say I care about all our boys, then I'd better include him in that.

 

FOG, we'd have called his parents, but he was dropped off, left at the event, and without a parent telling any of the leaders. And to try to get the family involved--well, that may not ever happen. This is not an easy situation, but prior to the next meeting/event we have, ALL families will be asked to stay in attendance or to provide a number where they can be reached immediately. That currently is something we don't have in place, but this boy is also the only one dropped anywhere without prior arrangements.

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HHi Laurie,

In Wood Badge training a mentor is assigned to you as you develop and carry out your goals. This counselor usually has a staff position of Troop Guide, although they can hold other positions as well. Wood Badge is a valuable to any scout leader in any scouting level and program providing they have completed basic training for their primary scouting responsibility.

 

You bring up a good point that he was not the only child there. The most important reason for being a scout leader is the development of the scout. That is why it is necessary to have enough adults recruited and participating so that the Pack committee can operate events and allow the leaders to work with the scouts.

 

Don't be side tracked by the "when we were young our parents would beat us and we liked it cause it gave us character" mentality that some ill informed leaders may offer you. Being a strong parent and leader doesn't mean you should train children to do what you say "or else". I agree that sometimes a scout needs to go home, but only when his safety or the safety of others is in question. Kids arent stupid they are just inexperienced. They don't always see the ramifications of their behavior. In many instances they have had poor adult role models.

 

Talking with scouts and explaining how actions affect them and others will usually bring about the results you are searching for. Often children try to get negative attention only because it is the only attention they ever get. Try talking, teaching and trusting before telling. I think you will get the results you are looking for and both of you will enjoy it more.

 

Bob White

 

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Trying to learn from Laurie's experience here...

 

If a 10 year old is saying inapproriate things and you try to reason with him, how far are you going to get with the "average" 10 yr old? Also, sounds like this kid is not "average" -- perhaps some emotional problems, learning disabilities and/or bad role models at home. Could be he hears dad/mom talk to others this way all the time, especially when they talk to him.

 

Is he going to make the connection between "help others" and don't call people bad names?

 

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Thank you Barry, Bob, and all. Bob, I don't know that we have a Troop Guide in our troop, and I know we have no such role in the pack. How I WISH I had that sort of support available to us. As for caring about this boy, yes, I'm beginning to. Seriously, I don't think a conversation with parents will take place, but I have a plan. As we kick off the new year, we are going to do something that has not been done before--actually let the boys and parents know what Cubs is, what the expectations are of all involved, how we hope to make that happen, how they can help, and to welcome their suggestions, ideas, and questions. It seems to me as though this is the way it SHOULD be, but it hasn't worked that way. So, wish me luck please, for this has fallen to me and our committee chair, but the den leaders that we've kept, we've kept because of the work we are doing now to educate and inform all involved. It would help to have training (obviously something I'm not happy about), but we must wait. Thanks again! I feel more hopeful about this particular boy, and also feel more ready to get to know him. No, I don't think he's respected. My belief is that we are all created in God's Image, so that means that noone is less deserving of respect than another. I'll have to remind myself of that often though! Also, though I will do things one way with my own children, I realize that I must not treat all others as my children. They have parents who may have different ideas of how to work with their children. So, I'll stick to Cub stuff with this boy and any other, and as I do so, work with those character connections. What a great opportunity! I felt cursed that we had this kid amongst us; now I am glad he's here. It won't be easy, but the best things in life usually aren't :)

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Laurie:

 

Best of luck to you in your quest. I like the advice you've been given and the direction you've chosen.

 

I also remember a simple sentence my first Scout Executive (meaning the one who hired me into the profession) said when we watched four Boy Scouts utterly screw up a flag-raising. Please keep his sentence in mind as you proceed to learn BSA leadership.

 

He shrugged, smiled, and said, "Well, we're not finished with them yet." :)

 

Amen to Floyd Seibert. A good mentor, even to a fuming District Executive.

 

I have since changed my philosophy a bit . . .

 

DS

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Hi Everyone,

Sorry I have been inactive on the forums for so long. During the summer I have been very busy. As far as the thing about kids I completely agree (even though I am a kid) but about the standing up when an adult enters I never did really get that. It would be disrupting to keep doing that everytime an adult enters. Also would you do it for any adult or just for older people and women???

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92 SPL: I think this is an excellent question. I too, even as an adult, sometimes wonder what the most respectful way is to act. So, hope noone minds, but I'm starting another thread to address this. It just keeps coming up :)

 

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