Eamonn 61 Posted July 21, 2003 Author Share Posted July 21, 2003 Wingnut If that is the case I'm really glad that I'm the District Chairman. You do bring up a very good and very valid point.(Not the one about my disissal, which I hope would be a Troop Committee decision, if I were a member of a Troop ?) Yes we do the Scouts a dis-service when we don't keep wirhin the rules. You are so right, it does confuse things. Sad to hear that you are glad that I'm not in the unit that you serve. I think that I have a lot to offer. How about if I start a poll and see how many others would have done the same thing, knowing that it was wrong? Anyway welcome to the forum, Even if you don't want me as a leader in your unit, I hope we can still be pals in the forum. Welcome Link to post Share on other sites
NWScouter 9 Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Wingnut, if you are implying that Eamonn would out if he was a member of your unit for bringing that boy home without a second leader present, I as District Commissioner would say that is wrong answer. The two other options would be 1. Wait at camp with him until his parents or an acceptable leadership came along. He would still be in violation of two deep and in a more dangerous situation than in a car on the highway. 2. To leave the boy there and hope that someone would pick him up with the correct two deep leadership. If anyone doesnt see that as unacceptable needs to revisit the purpose of safe scouting. Safe Scouting are guidelines, the goal is to keep the Scouts safe. If I had a leader that put Scouts at risk without violating a guideline his position in scouting would be at jeopardy. When you are in leadership you must look at everything. When you are driving a car and a child jumps out in front of you. You severe to wrong side of the road to avoid, even though driving on the wrong side is illegal. Yes you must train the Scouts on the rules and follow them but in all cases safety is the primary duty Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Old Guy 11 Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Wingnut, what's your solution to the problem? Shoot the kid and bury him in the woods? Link to post Share on other sites
frank10 12 Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Eamonn: Dang, some how that lost something in the typing... My point was I'd hate to lose a leader that has much to offer as you do. Did not mean to put down your value but rather to point out how much I'd miss it. And I am not recomending that you be dismissed, only stating that any leader in our unit would expect to be based on standing rules. My unit holds to a high standard, but the adults know it in advance. Thank you for the welcome! All: If there was no other safe option I would excuse a leader for transporting a boy as far as needed to remove him from danger but only as far as the nearest phone in a public location to contact the boys parents so they could determin what is best for their son and so they could explain to the scout why this exception is acceptable. Leaving it to the scouts judgement leaves the scout exposed when an abusive adult offers the same free ride. Link to post Share on other sites
Eamonn 61 Posted July 21, 2003 Author Share Posted July 21, 2003 Hindsight is 20/20. As I have stated from the get go. What I did was very dumb, very, very dumb. No excuses just plain dumb I would hope that everyone would do everything that they could do, not to get caught in the position that I was. The boy did call home on my cell. His Foster parents didn't seem that interested. Only thing that they wanted to know was when he would be home. Yes I could have waited till someone from his own unit came back for him, but still that would be as someone else has already outlined, a lot of coming and going, with me still up at camp one on one with this lad. No matter where I was, as long as I was there at some later date he could/can say that I acted in an improperly. Then there is me. I have things to do and places to go (I had to attend an Eagle Court of Honor) and then there was my lunch. Her That Must Be Obeyed, does not like it when I keep her from lunch. Link to post Share on other sites
Bob White 20 Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 I think Eamonn did an admirable job of explaining himself. He admits that better planning would have avoided this situation. A good lesson for all of us to remember. He understands the danger that a scout could be exposed to in such a situation as well as the dangers that he exposed himself to. But the fact is he had a stranded child. In first aid we teach scouts to never move an injured person UNLESS leaving them poses a greater risk to there welfare then moving them. A person with a broken back should not be moved but if he is in a burning building and no one is there to help then you move him however you can, even if you will risk harm. I think Eamonn was faced with a somewhat similar situation with a young boy with no way to get home. Leaving him was a greater risk to the scout in Eamonn's eyes and so since he was alone he risked himself to assist the scout. As he said this was not a usual thing for him and he learned to plan better. It's a good lesson for all of us. Let's watch out for each other on activities and not all drive away and leave a fine leader such as Eamonn stranded alone with a scout. Bob White(This message has been edited by Bob White) Link to post Share on other sites
Eamonn 61 Posted July 21, 2003 Author Share Posted July 21, 2003 Hey Bob. That's enough my head is starting to swell. Hey Man Of Stele : "Did you Hear What Bob Said" (Joke.) Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 eamonn, I agree with how you handled the situation even though it violated BSA policy. You used common sense and sometimes common sense must prevail over policy. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to post Share on other sites
OldGreyEagle 5 Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Perhaps what could have happened is the next day Eamonn calls the Council Scout Executive, explains the situation, tells him what happened to place Eamonn in that position and what was done. Then the Scout Executive would question the scout, find out what one heck of a guy Eamonn is ( as we already know) and the matter is closed. Part of the Scout Executives "duty" would be to assure the troop in quesiton has a procedure in place to never allow this to happen again. I think we all agree the right thing was done, now its time to document(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle) Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Old Guy 11 Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 I'm glad that I'm not in WingNut's unit, they sound like a bunch of wingnuts and probably have investagotory committees that look into violations "standing policies." "Vhere are your Scout Socks, Joey Secondclass? Talk, ve haff vays of making you talk!" Link to post Share on other sites
Fat Old Guy 11 Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Eamonn, what do you mean by "I have spent a fair amount of time in the "Ryan Homes" attending and presenting Camp School stuff"? What does a home building company have to do with Scouting? Also, has anyone talked to the stranded Scout's unit leaders to find out how or why he was left behind? If that question was answered, I must have missed it. Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Fat Old Guy, The homes at Heritage Reservation that are used by the staff & rangers were built by Ryan Homes. I think that's what eamonn was refering to. The OA also uses them at times. Ed Mori Scoutmaster Troop 1 1 Peter 4:10 Link to post Share on other sites
mk9750 11 Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 Wingnut, Welcome! Enjoy your stay at our little forum, and please contribute all that you like. Don't worry about being unpopular. Say what you think is right. If it's done without malice, you will be respected, even if we disagree. There is nothing "wrong" with being sticklers for the rules, especially when it comes to protecting youth. I do however, think it's never wrong to leave some wiggle room to cover those things for which youth protection is meant to, but for which there are no exceptions. Eamonn's situation is one of these. I agree he broke a rule. But I think the spirit of the rule would have been broken more if he had not acted like he did. If the boy were my son, I'd have hoped Eamonn would have done exactly what he did, rules be damned. Additionally, Eamonn did this with full knowledge of what the rule is. He knew he was breaking a rule, and he knew the potential consequences (both in and out of Scouting) for doing so, if someone wanted to make an issue of it. He showed TREMENDOUS courage. I applaud him. Contrast this to an adult who might have done the same thing only becuase he was ignorant of the rules. Shame on that person! He might get lucky and be able to defend himself based on ignorance, but in my mind, then he would be wrong. Know the facts, know the rules, and apply the rules to the facts. Anything less is negligent, in my view. Again, welcome! Mark Link to post Share on other sites
SagerScout 10 Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 All I can say is, find the leader who bailed out on his scout and GET A ROPE! Wet belongings are not a reason to strand a kid at camp. That is just pure-D absurd. Surely someone was able to count the available seat belts without that one leader (using fingers and toes, or little rock markers if necessary) and determine that there would be a problem at going-home time. That said, it seems to me that Eamonn acted perfectly appropriately given his circumstances, as Bob White described far more eloquently than I. Yes, I have had adults bail out on me at camp. But never without an assessment of the can-we-get-everyone-home problem. Link to post Share on other sites
bt01 10 Posted July 21, 2003 Share Posted July 21, 2003 The leader of the troop that left the scout sould be spoken to. What is more inportant wet gear the scout. Link to post Share on other sites
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