Forming New Scout Patrols

[Twocubdad 665]

Actually, the new scout patrols function very well, once we get through this annual down draft from the helicopter parents over patrol alignment.

 

We did come to some resolution with this fellow, at least temporarily. At one point during the exchange of emails, he was dropping out of this weekend's campout because his "only friend" couldn't go. I asked his Troop Guide to help him find a suitable tentmate for the weekend, and the TG suggested that this Scout take one of the three-man tents and tent with two of the other fellows who were already tenting together.

 

I used Venivedi's suggestion as a basis of a fairly long email response. I tried to be both sympathetic (which is a bit of a stretch for me) but also clearly explain our process and purpose (which comes more naturally). I wrote that although she and I were obviously already communicating, I really wanted her son to be the one to initiate a solution.

 

Longer term, it seems one of the boys in the other patrol may be moving out of state, and this Scout is willing to wait and possibly take is spot in the other patrol then. No, that really doesn't address the whole concept of team building, but my experience is that once we get through summer camp, everyone has forgotten about who is in what patrol anyway. By buying some time, I'm gambling the problem just goes away.

 

I was able to have a nice chat with the Scout and made the point that he had numerous opportunities to join which ever patrol he wanted and to change patrols had he just spoken up. His explaination was that at the time the patrols were forming, he was standing with the other group of guys and didn't want to hurt their feelings. While that was a really nice thought, and I commended him for thoughtfullness -- a Scout is Kind, afterall -- I told him being kind to other people doesn't mean you have to take it on the chin yourself. His own interests or other's feelings isn't an either/or choice. You can have both, but you have to go about it the right way. "YOU GUYS ARE JERKS AND I WANT TO CHANGE PATROLS" would not be the right way. But given the circumstances he could have simply walked over to where his buddies were and joined their group, or come to me and quietly shared his concerns before the patrols were finalized.

 

It was a good, positive outcome. Hopefully the young man's first two lessons in Boy Scouts are that it's okay to stick up for yourself and that his Troop Guides and Scoutmaster can be trusted to help with a problem.

 

 

 

Barry, can I steal you tag line?

[Eagledad 2777]

Yes!

[BadenP 93]

Twocub

 

After reading your post I do not see how you possibly can state that NSP's are working well for you? They seem to be causing you more problems than postives. IMO and experience, NSP's really cause you to lose more new scouts than any other single factor. In addition NSP's require the adults to become much more involved in what is supposed to be a boy led/run program.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

[Twocubdad 665]

I appreciate the point of view, but that's not the situation here. The annual whinning about patrol make up is a parent issue. Yes, this year I know the problem was initiated by the boy complaining to his mom, but that's not usually the case. More often than not we get parents gripping before the patrols are even formed! After five years in Cub Scouts they are generally happy with their sons' dens and den leaders and would be perfectly happy if they could sign up for a Webelos III program. If we have 13 new scouts, that means we have about 39 opinions about how the patrols need to be formed -- few of which consider the needs of the troop and program.

 

I can only imagine the outcry if we wanted to furtherndivided all the new scouts into six or seven "regular" patrols. "My little darling camping with that hairy, hormone-soaked ninth grader?" Good grief.

 

My philosophy is adult problems need adult solutions, so yeah, I get involved in this more than I like. I'm not going to feed a 14-year-old Troop Guide to unhappy mom. I will -- and did -- however, have the Troop Guide work with the Scout to solve the Scout's problem.

 

A good NSP program is all about having great Troop Guides. Troop Guide has become a fairly prestegious and sought-after position in the troop. We generally get our best Scouts wanting those positions. I think they like the focus on basic Scout skills and that they can really make a difference with the younger guys. It's self-perpetuating. Boys who had a Troop Guide want to build that relationship with the new scouts in their patrol and work hard at it.

[Greaves 10]

As a WDL & a Webelos parent, I will tell you we had some concerns in my den about where they would be in a patrol.

 

These concerns would have been reduced if the Troop had had a plan for the boys that they had communicated to us.

 

"We're going to have a NSP."

"No, we're going spread them out over three patrols."

"No, two patrols."

"We're going to have a NSP."

 

(It's not always the Webelos parents' fault)

 

[i volunteered for the Troop committee. I put myself in charge of new family/Webelos orientation]

[Twocubdad 665]

"[i volunteered for the Troop committee. I put myself in charge of new family/Webelos orientation] "

 

That's probably the best way to handle it.

 

A number of years a go we had a WDL/dad in your same spot who took that job and developed our parent orientation. We basically repeat the same orientation to the parents during the Webelos campout in the fall and again at separate meetings for the parents during troop meetings the first few weeks after cross over. Every year we try to include at least one second-year parent just to have the perspective of someone who has just been through it.

 

I'd be glad to send you a copy of our outline, if you're interested.

 

(BTW, Eagledad, I did respond your post about communicating with the parents, but when I hit submit I got an error from the server an the post was lost. Per the above, I feel like we do a very good job of communicating with the new parents -- if they show up, pay attention or read the material we give them. I know I explained the patrol alignment at least four times myself, which was a good part of my frustration.)

 

[BadenP 93]

Twocub

 

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this topic. All the troops I have seen that have used NSP's are troops where the unit has been adult led and controlled, or had a new SM & ASM who really did not know what they were doing. IMO, NSP = weak youth leadership who are indecisive and uncommitted, an adult dominated program, and a higher dropout rates, especially for new scouts. Maybe your troop is different but I have never seen a strong and thriving troop who used NSP's.

[Oak Tree 15]

I'm just sick of going through this crap every spring.

 

Our troop used to rearrange patrols completely each year. My wife dreaded that time of year because we'd been unable to figure out any way to do it without making some parent angry, and she didn't like seeing me absorbed with some unhappy parent.

 

One year we had a situation with the new Scouts that really made some people very frustrated. After their time in Cubs, there were some really strong friendships and some really bad anti-friendships. There was no way to split the boys that made people satisfied - and in retrospect, our problem was that we tried to come up with such a way. We would have been better off making it clear right off the top that people were going to have to deal with being unhappy. The system that you described may have worked ok.

 

I did use that system one year to remix all eight patrols. It was lucky enough that it was going to work out evenly. But what happened was the two most unliked Scouts didn't get picked in the first round, so they had to be buddies even though they were barely passing acquaintances. Then, of course, no other pair wanted to pair up with those two, so it was the next least-liked pair that got stuck with them. Now I had a group of the four "worst" Scouts in the troop. The other groups of four were all reasonable, and one of those groups generously agreed to merge with the other four. The patrol, not unexpectedly, completely fell apart over the following months and eventually got split up and merged among the other patrols.

 

Now we do very little adjusting of patrols, just what a single boy or two might ask for, or when the PLC decides that a patrol has stopped being viable.

 

We only got one patrol of new Scouts this year. Ah, the bliss.

 

Next year we'll get two. I haven't decided what we want to do at that point.

 

The NSPs work very well for us. That's not on the table for changing. The earlier the troop has moved the Scouts into regular patrols, the worse feedback the boys have given. They now recommend keeping the NSPs for a year. We'll see how it goes - each group has a somewhat different personality.

 

I have no great solution here, other that what Eagledad says - make sure you're very clear with the parents ahead of time about what you're going to do. Especially if there's a hint that there's going to be a problem, communicate clearly and frequently. At least, that's what I'll try to tell myself. Some years, no issues at all. A magic pill would be great.

[Greaves 10]

***

 

"[i volunteered for the Troop committee. I put myself in charge of new family/Webelos orientation] "

 

That's probably the best way to handle it.

 

***

 

it's that "part of the problem, or part of the solution" mindset. When I signed my son's application, that's also me signing up to make things better. (and there are things that need made better)

 

I really like some of the ideas I'm seeing here about how to organize the boys. The feeder Pack has 10 Webelos and another 10 Bears fixin to make their way towards the Troop. We need to get our ducks lined up way before the guys cross the bridge.

 

I would appreciate your new parent orientation outline. Our Troop CC threw something together for us when one of the families "asked" for one -- one of those "Well, Troop So & So had a meeting with the parents, and told us what to expect, and had a handout for us. . . ."

[BadenP 93]

Oak Tree

 

From your post it sounds like the parents of your boys have way too much control of your program decisions. Even when we tried NSP's parents still got ticked off. The Boy Scout troop is about teaching the boy to be a leader and in all honesty the need to start growing up and not depending so much on mommy and daddy. That was the way when I was a boy scout, an ASM, and a SM. The parents need to understand that if they let the system work it will, and that it is time to let their boy begin to grow up and speak for himself. Some of the parents in my troop may have been reluctant to accept that, but they all eventually agreed and the process did work.

Not to brag but the boys in my troop integrated faster in mixed patrols, advanced faster and really learned their scout skills, grew into leaders quicker, and most important stayed in the troop longer than any of the neighboring troops.

 

I can't tell you how many times parents came up to me after their boy had been in the troop awhile and told me they could not believe the changes in their boy and how much fun he was having in the troop. If you challenge your parents to take a leap of faith and trust that their son will be the better for it you can usually shut down those helicopter parents. It is all a matter of setting up a level of trust at the onset.