PLC Stuck In A Rut

[CubsRgr8 10]

My troop's PLC seems to be made up of scouts who are quite content to reuse last year's activity plan year after year after year. Here are two examples of their apparent unwillingness to "think outside the box".

 

Last fall, they specifically passed up on the once-in-their-scout-lifetime opportunity to attend the Great Lakes Jamboree, held just 60 miles away. Then, just recently, they voted to forgo attending the District's Fall Camporee this month, which will feature activities that coincide with the requirements of the historic merit badges (another once-in-their-scout-lifetime opportunity). Both times the PLC chose instead go on a campout at one of the "regular" locations.

 

I wouldn't raise the issue if attendance was great, or even good, but it isn't. At this past Tuesday night's troop meeting, preliminary attendance indicates 8 out of 50 scouts will attend the upcoming campout, and not even half of the members of the PLC!

 

What do you recommend adult leadership do to jumpstart the PLC and get them out of this rut of repeating the past over and over - without stepping over the boy-led line?

 

[ScoutNut 147]

How about reminding them they are not acting in a vacuum. They are supposed to be voicing the wants and needs of the boys in their patrols.

 

Clearly they are not doing that. They are opting for the things that are the easiest to do, not even things that THEY want to do, because they don't want to put forth any additional effort.

 

OF course, maybe the rest of the Troop does not want to put forth any effort either.

[moosetracker 132]

Are you the SM, or do you know if the SM is in agreement with you.

 

How about, not handfeeding them their activities but putting up a manditory challenge, that the next event the plan needs to be something they have never done before.. Or if you really want to break the "same old same old" routine, then make the challege that every other event or every third event they plan needs to be something they have never done before for the next year.

 

Then help them by having a brainstorming sessions, with just the PLC, or at a troop meeting with all the scouts in attendance.

[JFL49 10]

This issue falls on the shoulders of the Scoutmaster. And the Scoutmaster should be taking the matter up with the SPL, since it is the SPL's responsibility to lead the PLC.

 

I wonder if the problem is that the PLC is weak on planning. It doesn't take much planning if you always go with the "usual" events. But it does take effort to plan outside the box.

 

Do the youth leaders know how to be leaders? When is the last time the Troop ran TLT (Troop Leader Training)? TLT is a good forum to learn how to plan. It certainly is an excellent forum to learn how to lead.

[moosetracker 132]

I would agree, if the things they weren't side stepping were a Council Jamboree and a district Camporee. That usually takes no planning either. Unless they ask you to make and bring certain items.

 

[boomerscout 35]

you could appear before the PLC and promote some of these "new" activities with your powers of persuasion. Or, just tell them -- Hey guys, how about some new activities for a change?

[Kudu 186]

CubsRgr8 writes:

 

What do you recommend adult leadership do to jumpstart the PLC and get them out of this rut of repeating the past over and over - without stepping over the boy-led line?

 

Fear of stepping over the boy-led line is a phobia. A phobia often causes an extreme physical and emotional response to the object. It may trigger the fight or flight response due to fear and the perceived threat.

 

Fortunately it can be cured if detected early enough with the appropriate diagnostic tool:

 

Answer True or False:

 

1) My Troop holds elections every six months so that every one of our 50 Scouts gets a chance to hold a Position of Responsibility (POR) for advancement.

 

2) My Troop allows Scouts to serve two terms, but being good boys they usually "let someone else have a turn."

 

3) I believe that training is important: We hold Troop Leader Training (TLT) shortly after every election so that every new office holder can "learn how to be a leader."

 

4) The Scouts are well-versed in the EDGE method.

 

5) I hand out leadership position cards that define each position, and with each new leader I go over his new responsibilities.

 

6) During their six month tenure, they all do a reasonable job of fulfilling the responsibilities as outlined on those cards.

 

7) Our SPL appoints two ASPLs to supervise the Junior Leaders.

 

8) "Once an Eagle, Always an Eagle"

 

9) Retesting is wrong.

 

10) Even though 8 out of the 50 Scouts will attend the upcoming campout, all of our Eagles earned each and every requirement along the way.

 

11) After they were signed off for First Class, suddenly they had to juggle sports, school, sports, family obligations, sports, chores, and sports against camping. And well, their teams do depend on them!

 

12) My committee, all of our parents, and I are united in our belief that the test of a true Eagle Scout is his "Leadership and Character," not his current Scoutcraft skills: The BSA is not a camping club!

 

13) We believe that Scouting is for all boys.

 

14) Eagle Scout is a worthwhile and achievable goal for every boy, including those who absolutely hate camping.

 

15) A boy who hates camping can learn many valuable things about responsibility and leadership as a Patrol Leader.

 

16) I skim past discussions of Baden-Powell's minimum standard of 300 feet between Patrols because that stuff is just noise.

 

17) Besides, in my area, there are no campsites that would accommodate 300 feet between Patrols.

 

18) If Baden-Powell were alive today, he would be happy that Wood Badge replaced Scoutcraft with Leadership Skills.

 

19) I skim past discussions of Patrol Outings without adult supervision because that's just irresponsible!

 

20) I support Wood Badge leadership experts who are now working on the national level to introduce changes to the Guide to Safe Scouting which will finally make Patrol Outings against the rules and more in keeping with the "outside the box" leadership formulas that work so well in corporations (as the golden parachutes proved in 2008).

 

21) The reason that two million Scouts left as soon as the BSA switched from Scoutcraft to corporate leadership skills is because society changed and now people don't like our values.

 

22) I actually know the BSA's Mission Statement.

 

Scoring:

 

If you answered "True" to all of the questions, Congratulations! You follow the BSA's 21st century program, so you are not to blame! The reason that only 16% of your Scouts want to go camping is that "modern" boys hate camping. After millions of years of evolution (or 6,000 years of sin), human nature suddenly changed in 1972. Hang in there and try to learn some Spanish so that you can switch to the BSA's new "We Really Do Hate Camping" soccer program when it is offered in your area! Don't like soccer? Not to worry! If millions of boys pour into the BSA for soccer, then the BSA will "broaden the appeal" of soccer by dumbing it down enough to attract boys who hate soccer!

 

If you answered "False" to any question, check out what a PLC meeting is like without office leadership theory:

 

http://inquiry.net/patrol/court_honor/coh_session.htm

 

Note that the Patrol Leaders prove their worth by organizing their own Patrol Outings every month or fortnight without adult supervision. If a Patrol Leader takes his Patrol to "one of its 'regular' locations," the other Patrol Leaders ridicule him. Gasp! Think of what that does to his self-esteem! They need diversity training!

 

Note also that when they organize a Troop Outing, the Patrol Leaders make the key decisions but seem to delegate most of the details to the adults.

 

How are they going to learn "leadership" with all that stepping over the Troop Method's boy-led line, huh?

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

 

Oh! And hey! Why don't they have any Troop Elections and POR requirements?

 

[Stosh 3452]

Kudu has some good input, but from my perspective you have a troop with little if no leadership.

 

1) Doing the tried and true is safe. No risk of failure.

 

2) Doing something new will require more work, planning, energy, etc.

 

3) It's easier to follow yesterday's paths than to lead on the new ones of tomorrow.

 

4) If the PLC sits around long enough doing boring yesterday's activities, eventually some adult is going to put his/her foot down and try and get something going, i.e. take the lead....

 

Maybe elected PLC members are not going to be as effective as PLC members that really want to do something worthwhile. If the PLC isn't doing anything, except last year's schedule, why do you need a PLC? Dump it and let the PL's know that they can now do anything they want to do and don't have to wait for the PLC to tell them what it's going to be. I'm thinking there are going to be some PL's that have been waiting for a chance to do something fun and now it's their time to move on it. Too often than not, the PLC groups hold the patrols back and the adults sit around scratching their heads wondering why no one is doing anything.

 

Drop the PLC for 1 year and let the patrols plan their own activities designed around their own interests and skill levels. That way the NSP can do their thing and the Venture boys can do their thing. At the end of the year, compare activities the PLC was choosing and those that the independent patrols were choosing. Should be an interesting insight.

 

Stosh

[Kudu 186]

jblake47 writes:

 

Drop the PLC for 1 year and let the patrols plan their own activities designed around their own interests and skill levels.

 

That is a great idea, Stosh!

 

When people go to SM Specific Training, at best they learn that "Patrol Method" = "PLC"

 

Get rid of the PLC for a year and a Troop may discover what Bill Hillcourt called a "Real Patrol."

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

 

[GKlose 24]

Our troop has been in a situation where there was no PLC for at least a year, possibly more. Adult-led, advancement-oriented, the whole bit. Outings were in the same place every year, roughly six outings a year, and the same 16% (give or take) attended. A funny thing happened too: an entire Webelos den joined one spring, and by November, they had decided to split off and form their own troop, which had monthly outings in varying places.

 

There's a whole lot more to the story (and I've told bits and pieces in other threads), but I won't drop a bomb here.

 

Personally, I like JFL's idea -- the SM should be counseling the SPL, and the SPL should be challenging the PLC.

 

Guy

[Eamonn 61]

A couple of times a week HWMBO asks me " What do you want for dinner?"

The truth is that I really don't care what we have for dinner. So I reply "What have you got?"

This upsets her.

She tells me that I know what's in the freezer.

I tell her that I don't care.

So we end having chicken!

I know that if I were to say that I wanted Pepper Seared Lamb Noisettes, served with dauphine potatoes, she would tell me to get a life and cook it myself!

One good thing about things that you have done before is that most times it is easy and there isn't much risk involved.

I think if we were to sit a group of kids down and ask them what they wanted to do? The answer would for the most be the look that you get when you catch a deer in your headlights. Or like HWMBO and I you end up with the darn chicken again.

Good plans take work and need to be planned.

Start by setting aside a weekend away with the PLC and working on an Annual Plan.

Let everyone adults and Scouts list the things that they might like to see done over the next year. Work this list into about 12 themes, maybe less depending on what the themes are and how the Troop works.

Try very hard to make it seem that the Scouts have the final word and if possible make them think that everything was there idea.

The highlight of the year should be the summer trip/camp.

Assign a time period to each theme. (About a month or so) Be prepared to not do what you have always done. That might mean not attending the District events, just because you are busy doing something else.

At the monthly PLC meeting plan and practice what will be done at the next 4 or so Troop meetings. This might mean that the meeting isn't a sit down meeting but a meeting where the P/L's practice what they are going to be doing with their Patrols over the next few meetings or going over stuff they they think they know.

The adults can bring a lot of ideas and material to the table. For example if Wild life is a theme maybe they can see if the local Game Commissioner is willing to attend a meeting or maybe the Troop can meet with him out in the woods?

As Scout Leaders we need to be able to use our imaginations and look for resources a simple theme like wild Life could include use of computers, cameras, hikes, maps compass, conservation projects maybe even a summer trip to work on a bigger conservation project? Some of the activities can be used to cover some MB requirements. (We had one super weekend working on a stream. The kids had a great time splishing and splashing while examining for stream life, cleaning up around the area and planting native trees that would help stop the erosion. They also got to fish and cook what they caught, which wasn't a lot after all the splashing!)

PLC's and planning do at times need a little push from the adults, but the adults do need to learn when to shut up and just listen to what the Scouts are saying. Sometimes we can't always deliver what they think they want. Our Sea Scouts wanted to go to Sea Base, but what with so much going on at school (Exams, prom, sports etc.) They just didn't have the time for the needed fund raising. So we changed it and went Kayaking down in Georgia for about one tenth of the cost.

Ea.

 

[JFL49 10]

Amen.

[Twocubdad 665]

Yeah, I'm in JFL's camp too. Somehow, destroying the PLC to save it doesn't sound like a good idea. I think the guys promoting that idea don't use PLC's in the first place. So factor that in.

 

There are a lot of things a good Scoutmaster can do to jump start the PLC (and it needs to be the Scoutmaster as it is his responsiblity to lead the junior leaders). I'm not particularly advocating any one of these but maybe one will be something will strike a chord with your troop:

 

-- First of all, I strongly believe this is the point at which the adults need to roll up their sleeves and engage. A good friend who has been a Scoutmaster going on 40 years once told me his greatest challenge as SM is to figure out the level of adult involvement his junior leaders require and to engage or disengage based on that. Soounds like your PLC needs a heavy dose of Adult Association.

 

-- Secondly, focus on training. You need to teach the PLC how to plan an outing. What do the troop committee and parents in general expect to see in a plan? At minimum, the need to treat it like a float plan. Some will suggest that your "natural leaders" leave the womb knowing this but I disagree. That may have been true when life looked looked like "Follow Me Boys" and a group of boys could stop at the corner grocery store be hiking to the edge of town for a campout. Teach the boys the process of working through the details of a campout. Give them the tools they need. Maybe a worksheet would help them, at least until they get the hang of if.

 

-- Do something to jump start the PLC's imagination. Hold a planning session with them where you have several computers with Internet access. Get a big map of your area and highlight every state or US park within a reasonable drive time. Have the boys get on line and research what to do at every park.

 

-- Do your homework and have your own list of "cool" outings. Go to Roundtable and get ideas from the other leaders where their troops go.

 

-- Lead by example. Let the adults plan a trip, but make sure the boys are at their side watching every step of the way. If you call to make a reservation, make sure the Scout who should be making the call is listen in. A couple years ago we wanted to jump-start the level of cooking in the troop. At JLT that year, instead of having dinner brought in, we divided into small groups with 2-3 Scouts and one adult. Every group was tasked with making one entree and one side dish they had never made before. One group made chicken pharm, another wanted to grill steaks, one patrol made a really great gumbo. The adults taught really basic cooking skills, like the right way to chop an onion, or how to test a steak to determine its doneness. An it worked. Those boys took those lessons back to their patrols and really stepped-up the quality of cooking in the patrol. They planned an "Iron Chef" patrol cooking competition for one of the campouts. And now the PLC cook off is a big part of JLT training, too.

 

Now I know folks are going to scream that this isn't Youth Led. No, this is part of one of the other methods, Adult Association. Of course, the goal should be for the adults to back out as soon as possible. But "boy led" doesn't have to mean "boy led off into the ditch."

 

This is why we're here, guys, to teach, guide, motivate and inspire the boys.

[eagle90 125]

Once in a while there is nothing wrong with a SM saying, "This is a once in a lifetime activity. We are doing it!" By the way, The Great lakes Jamboree was an outstanding event. As much as we would like, 100% boy led is a myth. The adults are there for a reason. Their experience is invaluable.

[Stosh 3452]

"I like JFL's idea -- the SM should be counseling the SPL, and the SPL should be challenging the PLC." I don't, this is exactly what I would use as an example of adult-led leadership.

 

"-- First of all, I strongly believe this is the point at which the adults need to roll up their sleeves and engage. A good friend who has been a Scoutmaster going on 40 years once told me his greatest challenge as SM is to figure out the level of adult involvement his junior leaders require and to engage or disengage based on that. Soounds like your PLC needs a heavy dose of Adult Association." Ditto.

 

"As much as we would like, 100% boy led is a myth. The adults are there for a reason. Their experience is invaluable." If I really believed this, I would quit Scouting in a heartbeat! Sorry, but this statement is why we have so many adult-led programs in scouting today. To assume that the boys will never be able to actually lead is to set the boys up to never get there no matter how hard they try. If I was in a troop where the SM said that to me, it would be at the last meeting my son would have attended and he'd be in a leadership troop the next week.

 

"Our troop has been in a situation where there was no PLC for at least a year, possibly more. Adult-led, advancement-oriented, the whole bit. Outings were in the same place every year, roughly six outings a year, and the same 16% (give or take) attended.A funny thing happened too: an entire Webelos den joined one spring, and by November, they had decided to split off and form their own troop, which had monthly outings in varying places." And still there are those that can't see the damage being done by adult-led programs! This is not an issue of a dysfunctional/non-existent PLC, this is because it's adult-led. I'm thinking one could have a PLC in an adult-led troop and the Webelos cross-overs would have still left the program. Just because one doesn't have a PLC doesn't mean it is adult-led!! Remember the other half - "patrol-method"

 

Every patrol if left alone with a trained PL can do just fine without adult interference or a PLC. All the dynamics of the BSA program always want to tend towards adult-led and the temptation must be resisted at every opportunity.

 

Okay, you have 4 patrols and they all want to go to a different summer camp. What now? The SM steps in and forms a PLC to make 3 of the patrols conform to one and they all go to the same camp. Sorry, that's adult-led, troop-method. In this case it's the responsibility of the SM to do only one thing. Find 8 adults to get the boys to the camps they want to go to! The NSP gets a camp that specializes in the first year program. The venture patrol gets a camp that specializes in high adventure, etc. Everyone gets what they want and the SM got off his butt and did his job, support the boys in those things THEY want to do, not what's convenient to the adults or they'll take over and start calling the shots.

 

More power to those Webelos boys! Sounds like they might have some real leadership potential coming their way!

 

If everyone always looks to real leadership to get things done in a troop, it's always going to be an adult-led program. Only when the adults make a concerted effort to relinquish that do they offer it up as an opportunity for the boys to pick it up and run with it.

 

Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47)