Trouble with SPL

[oldsm 10]

I am starting to realize that I have a problem with my SPL and I'm not sure how to deal with it. Here goes.

 

SPL, a Life scout, was elected in October for a 1-year term. His dad, an ASM with who we have had some problems (now basically inactive), was certain that his son would make the best SPL the troop had ever had. Dad has a very strong personality, son is quite meek and is certainly not a "take charge" fellow.

 

I have tried to counsel with the SPL via phone and at meetings. SPL tends to provide the answers he thinks adults want to hear. Also does not follow through well on things he commits to do.

 

Recently, he told his ASPL (a very quiet boy) on 1-hour notice that the ASPL had to run the PLC. The ASPL can do well given advance notice, but does not like things sprung on him at the last minute. I helped him through the PLC and thought he did quite well.

 

Last night, my son gave me a message that he'd spoken with the SPL, who told him that he would not be present at the COH tomorrow evening - no explanation. I later called the SPL to get the order of speakers for the printed program. SPL said he didn't have it - that the ASPL and/or one PL did. I expressed surprise that he didn't have it as SPL, then said "see you on Tuesday". He mumbled an OK. He had plenty of opportunity to let me know he wouldn't be there, but gave no indication one way or the other, and I didn't specifically ask.

 

Found out from the PL that the SPL had instructed the boys not to discuss the annual planning conference at the COH. No one knows why. I told the PL to bring it up anyway - it's important for parents to know about and for the boys to be reminded about.

 

The SPL is being pushed by his parents (mostly his mom, I think) to get his Eagle project done. She seems to think it's a slam-dunk process, but the boy hasn't finished his proposal yet - no way it's going to be done next weekend. They've also been rather open about wanting him to "get his Eagle so he doesn't have to be bothered with scouts".

 

SPL is only 15 and has no outside activities other than piano lessons and scouts. Usually makes high honors. No sports, no extracurricular activities, no fumes. Only child. Recently agreed to help with a student-run musical at school, but parents decided he didn't have time. Is a member of the OA in name only.

 

The issues I'm identifying have to do with the SPL's leadership ability and sense of loyalty to his troop members. He will not "take charge" on outings, waiting for an adult to step in at the last minute to tell him what to do. Never shows up early to set a leadership example for the other boys. He has been to troop-based JLT 2x and council-based JLT camp. He never told me until the summer camp sign-up deadline that he wasn't going to camp with us this summer - and wasn't going to tell me until I asked where his paperwork was. Seems he decided to go to a sailing camp instead (I know he could have done that any number of other weeks - every summer his parents, who both work, are looking for relatives and camps to keep him occupied and not home alone). He had kind of a sheepish grin on his face when he finally told me.

 

Should I be concerned about his leadership or lack thereof and how it affects the troop? Hold "early" elections? What about Scout Spirit and eventual recommendation for an Eagle BOR? It will be interesting to see what happens at the COH tomorrow if he doesn't show - I'm pretty certain he has not alerted his ASPL.

 

SPL is basically a good kid - never gets into trouble, one my son's best friends, but I find his attitude wanting.

 

I know this is long, but I'm seeing a persistent pattern. Comments and suggestions?

[acco40 95]

First, and I know I'll get a lot of negative feedback on this, leave his parents out of it. Next, schedule a Scoutmaster Conference with this boy. Explain to him what his leadership responsibilities are - better yet, let him tell you what he feels his leadership responsibilities are. Make sure it goes down in writing. Hold monthly meetings with him and with his input "grade" his performance.

 

One thing I can't stand is absent leadership. If you are going to be an SPL or PL you have to be there!

Have him read his Boy Scout Handbook to you. The participation requirement is explained in The Boy Scout Handbook, pg 169 as TO GAIN FULL ADVANTAGE of all Scouting has to offer, you need to be present when things are happening. Take part in meetings, in planning activities, and in the fun of adventures. If youre there, you can do your part to make your patrol and troop a success.

[oldsm 10]

Nothing would make me happier than to leave the parents out of it. Unfortunately, there will probably be some blow-back. They tend to be a bit over-protective IMO. Mama's always waiting at the end of the meeting to get her boy out of there as quickly as possible.

[SemperParatus 1]

Maybe its just me, but your post leaves me thinking that the persistent problem is not entirely with the scout, but mostly within yourself. Your post comes across as overly judgemental of the boy and his family, a willingness to revoke his decisions without knowing his rationale for them and play games to watch him fail, and a sense that this boy's personality does not fit with your imagination's concoction of what 'your' SPL should be like.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[scoutldr 732]

I have a similar situation...17 year old turning 18 in July. Has Eagle project and 3 Eagle required MB to go. Currently elected SPL. Has a job at a local movie house, so has missed probably 10 of the last 15 meetings, the camporee, etc. The only time I see him is when he wants coaching on his project.

 

This is where I think that objective performance criteria would be of help. Too many scouts (and leaders) think that the POR requirement is met as long as the patch is on the sleeve.

 

Another suggestion might be to schedule a BOR ... they can be held at any time, not just for rank advancement. Have the committee discuss their views on Leadership and set out some expectations for this Eagle candidate.

[Lisabob 13]

How often do you meet with this scout? Maybe a weekly or bi-weekly meeting with just you and the scout would be helpful. (in some public place so as to avoid one-on-one contact issues - let mom or dad hang out nearby if need be, but the meeting should be between the SM and SPL.) Together you could discuss troop goals & plans, provide guidance as needed in terms of developing a strategy to implement said goals & plans, etc.. And although he isn't going to camp w/ the troop, he should still be involved in getting the troop ready for camp.

 

We've got limited info to work with here. But for the sake of discussion, let's give this kid the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he really isn't sure how to do his job, is intimidated by both his parents AND by you (he is probably aware that his dad has been a "problem" in the past and may feel that you'll hold him in lower esteem as a result of dad's behavior), and probably he is aware he's not succeeding the way you want him to - so he is avoiding you and the whole situation.

 

Now that's not good leadership on his part, I'll agree. But you might need to do more to reach out to him and help give him some structure within which he can learn to lead. This is where mentoring can be really powerful.

 

You mentioned he was elected in October and has a one year term, so you've still got a few months. Even without him going to summer camp, there's still some time to work with him. Don't let it slide any longer but do try to frame this as an opportunity for both yourself and for him - what can you do to help him succeed?

 

Lisa'bob

[Eamonn 61]

Oldsm,

I'm sure you are a very nice fellow, but I think I'm with SemperParatus, you need to lighten up a little with this Lad.

Make sure that you aren't allowing your feelings toward his parents cloud your feelings toward him.

Maybe try having one of the other adults have a chat with him?

Maybe you need to let your hair down a little?

Give the kid a break.

Eamonn.

 

[evmori 11]

I'm with acco on this one! Leave the parents out of this.

 

Like acco posted, set up a SM conference with the Scout ASAP. The Scout only, not his parents. At this conference, tell him what you expect of him as the SPL. Give it to him in writing & have him sign that he is in agreement and give him a copy. Then hold him to it. If he doesn't live up to the agreement he has signed, remove him as SPL.

 

Ed Mori

Troop 1

1 Peter 4:10

[SR540Beaver 116]

Semper,

 

Boy, I didn't read the same things into oldsm's post that you did. This is a 15 year old scout who has been to Council JLT and Troop JLT twice. If he joined the troop at 10.5 or 11, he has been a Scout for 4+ years. He is Life. He has watched other SPL's do the job. What is there for him NOT to know? I realize knowing the job and doing the job are two different things. Our job is to teach them the job and coach them thru it. It sounds to me like oldsm is attempting to do that, but has an unwilling student. Keep in mind that the boy ran for the position, so it is not unfair to expect him to fulfill the job's responsibilities. His poor performance has a direct effect on every boy in the troop. There are many other POR's this boy could have done for rank advancement if he doesn't want to be top dog. Maybe he did it at his parents urging, but he could have told the SM he didn't want to run or spread the word not to vote for him. I saw a kid do this where he had no interest and his mom wanted him to be a PL. He threw his hat in the ring to appease his mom and promptly told his patrol mates not to vote for him on the side. The one problem I see in my opinion is making the position a one year term. That is a tall order for any young man. It needs to be 6 months so they don't burn out and other boys get a chance at the POR.

 

I think having a SM conference or even a BOR is in order. It is the scouts career and not the parents. They don't need to be involved. The SM and scout need to have a heart to heart and find out what the underlying problem is. Is he doing it for his parents? Is he bored? Does he not like being in charge? I have my qualms about enalizing a boy and not crediting his POR if I have not stayed on top of the problem and counciled him. When an employee is doing something that bugs his boss and the boss lets it continue for a lengthy time; it is unfair to call the employee in when you've had your fill and fire him if you've never told him there is a problem. If he is doing the job to the best of his ability, work with him and credit him. If he is doing it because his mom wants him to and is blowing it off, council him. If htere is no improvment, remove him and replace him and give him no credit. He needs to know what is expected and with help, step up and do his best.

[Beavah 205]

Yah, I think leavin' the parents out of it is a good way to approach the boy.

 

But I think we've got to recognize that the parents may be the ones sabotaging the boy's scouting experience. It's hard for a 15 year old to succeed if mom and dad aren't supportive, eh? And not many quiet boys are going to explain/admit that their parents don't like their scouting participation.

 

Perhaps, since he likes sailing, it's time for him to leave the troop and go to a Sea Scout Ship. He can finish his POR, Scout Spirit, and Eagle work with them. I'd raise that suggestion with the boy and the parents.

[CalicoPenn 729]

In this case you have a young man whose interests in Scouts seems to be waning; who hasn't yet found his niche in a) the program and b) life; whose parents are making his decisions for him; who hasn't developed the confidence to push back yet; and who may have been thrust into a role he just doesn't have the drive for. Given that he is your son's best friend, wouldn't it be possible for you to chat with the lad not as the Scoutmaster ("scary" authority figure) but as Best Friend's Father ("non-judgemental father-figure" authority figure)? I know when I was growing up, my best friend's father was available to me as a non-judgemental adult to talk with if I was ever having problems I didn't want to talk to my own parent's about (and vice-versa for my best friend).

 

Beavah has great advice if you're willing to broach the subject with the boy and be willing to be on his side and encouraging him through it - and that's to consider moving on to Sea Scouts or a Venturing Crew and complete his POR and Eagle work there. My Scoutmaster recognized the signs that I was no longer interested in the Troop at age 15 and encouraged me to move on to Exploring (the old-style Exploring) where I got fired up again, earned my Eagle and became active in OA. 15/16 is the age where you're either going to have a kid committed to the end or you're going to lose him unless you help him find another path.

 

It's better to help the lad find his path, whatever that path is, than to try to force him into some mold that is expected of him (from his parents and Scoutmaster).

 

CalicoPenn

 

 

[EagleInKY 14]

I've had a similar situation with a lad in my troop. I've written about him before. Dad doesn't like me much. Seems I took "control" away from him somehow. Long story, I won't go into it now.

 

I'm now pretty upfront with this boy (he's 14). He's starting to work on his Eagle Project. He'd bring me the plan, I reviewed it, gave him some feedback. He'd bring it back, with some changes, but not everything. This continued for a while. I'm pretty sure I know what was happening. Dad was telling him that he didn't have to do what I said, that he had everything he needed. The only thing was, I was not going to sign it until I had it. He proceeded to try the same move on the committee.

 

Eventually I sat him down with the Troop Committee Chairman. I explained to him very bluntly that this was not an issue about his dad or me. I know his dad doesn't agree with me, but the truth is, he needs my support right now and he needs to listen to me. I explained to him that this wasn't personal, and I was not picking on him, I just wanted to make sure he covered all the bases before he submitted his plan to the district. Once he realized that I wasn't trying to stand in his way, he completed the plan per my suggestion and is moving ahead.

 

Point is, I think sometimes parents "pollute" their kids heads with opinions of us. Sometimes it's best to acknowledge it, but explain that those issues have nothing to do with him in his SPL role. He needs to perform, and he needs to meet the expectations of the job.

 

Good luck. I think it's time for a good heart-to-heart SM Conference with him. If you think it will help, have another adult leader with you. Not to double-team him, but to protect yourself from him misrepresenting what you said to his father.