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Old ASM New SM

8 - 5th graders 1 - 6th grader is our new troop. HELP!

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Vrooman,

 

We have set up two patrols - Sometimes there is interpatrol competition other times tha all participate in the same activity.

I am interested in what you had replied about losing boys along the way(long story). Here is my long story made short. We have lost 3 boys in 3 short months --- They haven't given the program a chance to get started to know what boyscouting is all about.

 

Of those that quit -

 

1 is involved in too many other things already -

 

1 the family did not like the short notice on events that were taking place ----- Just getting stared you'll have that - and

 

1 only joined because his buddy was in it and his buddy was the one that the parents had the boy quit. I have already implemented many of the ideas listed in this thread and the 6 boys that are involved seem to like the program.

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A year later - does anyone know how this troop is doing or if it is doing.

 

You still out there Old ASM New SM?

 

Be interesting to know how it went.

 

ronvo

 

 

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Thanks Ronvo for bringing this back to the top of the list. It was a good read for me.

 

I have a similar situation. We have 12 new 5th graders, 3 - 6th graders and two life scouts that are supposedly working on Eagle projects. I really dont expect the two older boys to be around in 6 mo.

 

We split the new boys into two patrols. I am the ASM and former WDL for 5 of the boys in one of the patrols and we add the one boy who came in by himself that that patrol. The other ASM is overseeing the other patrol that came out of his old Pack.

 

It is a very old Troop but has been struggling quite a while. They did not die but for all practical purposes we are starting over. The 6th graders have been in a little less than a year and are almost 1st class. The two older boys rarely show at meeting and although they have been in name SPLs they really are not doing the job and at this point I dont know they ever will be. I hear they had a great SPL a couple of years ago but he moved away.

 

The SM, other ASM and I are relatively new to the troop although the SM has lots of Troop experience with an older son and knows the ropes. We are all WB trained and we have a great group of experienced adults who boys have passed through still hanging around to aid us.

 

At this point we are certainly in still in the coaching stage. I fear if we try to push too fast we will just frustrate the boys. I am seeing steady progress over the last few meetings and we will get there eventually.

 

A couple of the 6th graders show great promise will be capable to running things at some point but they still need a little more maturity to fly on there own. PLC is being run pretty much by the SM because they really would have no idea what needs to be done or where to start. Info is passed on here to the PL and they are responsible informing their patrol of what needs to be done and getting it accomplished.

 

I know it depends on the boy, but has anyone had much success with 12 year old SPLs? How fast do we push for a full boys run troop?

 

You rarely if ever get any more out of someone than you expect. We are setting high expectations for these young boys and they are more than living up to the challenge. Great fun to watch.

 

Glad to see there is light at the end of the tunnel.

 

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The troop I tried reviving was not a sucess. A combination of the boys having several other things to do, parental involvement(or lack of), and me possibly pushing the patrol method to them too soon caused the boys to drop one by one. The first several months, we had good troop meetings and outings with good participation. As I started having the boys, with the help of their parents and myself line up outings and parts of the troop meetings, other interests became easier for fun things to do for them.

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Old New

 

Thanks for the update. Sorry to hear the boys would rather have someone spoon feed them their fun, than to come up with their own ideas and adventures. I don't see how you could have pushed the patrol method too soon - it is the only way to do Scouts.

 

You are to be commended for trying. Hopefully you have been able to offer your services and wisdom to another unit.

 

YIS,

ronvo(This message has been edited by ronvo)

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ronvo - I'll disagree with you on this one. When you are starting a troop with boys that young, you have to slowly bring them into the patrol system and boy-led model. Think about it. They've never made a decision before in their life. Heck, most of them probably don't choose their own clothes yet.

 

When our troop started (3 years ago) our boys were a little older than his. They didn't have a clue what they wanted the troop to do. We tried having boy-led PLC meetings, annual planning sessions, etc. But they were ineffective. We ended up operating as two patrols, but did not use an SPL for the first 16 months. This actually worked pretty well. What was happening was that I was "modeling" what the SPL should do. (And I constantly reminded them of that). Over time, we started rotating PLs as "acting SPL". After 16 months, we elected our first SPL. He wasn't very effective, but it was a learning experience. We took one step at a time.

 

Now I would say we are about 60% there. I believe in two years we'll be where the program should be. If you look at that, it works out to 20% progress per year. I think that is pretty reasonable, and synchs up pretty well with Barry's (Eagledad) post on another thread about it taking about six years to get to a boy-led culture.

 

While I'm sorry that Old ASM New SM's troop didn't work out. I do believe it provides some insight and a warning to those trying to start new troops with very young boys.

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Eagle

 

I don't disagree with you. I think our problem is defining the Patrol Method and having specifics on how to implement it.

 

With young or any boys you can't just say here's your troop - run it. OLD NEW said he thought he was pusing the patrol method too soon. He did not give specifics so we can't say yea or nay that he was doing it wrong. My point is you can't start a one way w/o the patrol method and then switch to another.

 

It DOES have to be develped but you can put them in patrols and with adults acting in boy leadership positons - begin the developing the patrol method. Sounds like this is kinda what you all did and it is working. I don't think you can do the "troop" method and then switch and have it work. You would have lost time and have to start from square one.

 

What we don't see is much information on how to develop the Patrol Method. I think many see it as either or when it should be a process.

 

Does that make any sense at all. I don't know if I am doing a good job of conveying what I mean. Which may very well be the problem so many have with the patrol method.

 

Eagle - I think we are in agreement - but we have to define the patrol method and maybe create steps to developing it. Maybe you could share more of the specifics of what you have done.

 

I admit to not having done this as a Scouter. However the troop my boy just crossed into is adult run and seems disorganized. At the troop meeting this week one of the ASM's talked to the new boys about the upcoming camping trip, equipment, packing, made a menu etc. The older boys were wandering around- no program - at times in and out of the younger group. The SM for at least 15 minutes was off talking to another parent about something unrelated to scouting.I attribute this all to lack of the patrol method.

 

As a boy I was in a Patrol Method troop. Granted it was 30 years ago and not that we were the best troop around - but we were good - knew our stuff and were boy led with adult guidance.

 

END RAMBLINGS HERE :)

 

YIS,

ronvo

 

 

 

 

 

 

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